Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

I used to agree fully with what you say. But only a few days ago it occurred to me that in the early days of the web (let's say late '90, early 2000s) I thought that the internet was going to make the world a more peaceful place: everybody would have talked directly with one another, irrespective of distances and languages; we would have understood each other better and disagreements would have been smoothed out.

Well, that didn't happen. What happened instead is that the ongoing discussions seem to stir up even more disagreement; and people are not really talking to each other, they rather signal their belonging to this or that faction. Also, the internet has been weaponised: leaving aside the organised "troll factories", any group that feels strongly about something can try to impose it to everyone else just by occupying as much space as possible. And then, if others express publicly their own ideas, don't you want your idea to be represented too? Then it becomes a shouting match, where each faction tries to fill as much public space as possible by shouting at the top of its lungs.

Part of this is the traditional media's fault. We thought newspapers and tv networks were going to die, drowned in the huge amount of available information sources. Instead, the web is still hierarchical: few media outlets shape the conversation deciding what to report on and how, then everyone else has the choice of closing ranks around the proposed narrative or in opposition to it. The dream of global peer-to-peer conversations didn't really come to be.

this whole thread has nothing to do with real world threats of physical violence. online trolling is different than your extreme example.

> but so many of the lies spread via social media are easily disproved by consulting primary sources.

I wish this were true. I used to post snopes links and primary sources to Baby Boomer posts on Facebook, but it's hopeless. They either don't trust the fact-check, can rationalize it away, or just don't care. One of the most shocking realizations of my adult life has been learning that a very large portion of my otherwise high-functioning friends will believe anything, no matter how crazy or self-contradictory, if it reinforces their sense of self-righteousness.

I would agree with the gp that it seems no one who lived in the age of Usenet flame wars would see the current state as new. Remember when people would All CAPS each other?

I would also say I’ve never thought of myself as a troll .... but given the number of downvotes I get on hn, I probably am at least troll-ish. So with that in mind, here’s the troll-ish take:

When people post something online it’s often in anticipation of something good coming from it. At this point there’s nothing any system or protocol can do to make this person less impacted if anything less than a unicorn floats pout of the sky dropping little unicorn turds over their one little contribution to discourse. We simply can’t change the super enormous personal expectations that one builds up as a result of commenting.

At the same time there’s this real world trend that is starting to reflect the virtual world. People talking to each other face to face using the same etiquette they would in a virtual setting.

I would suggest it’s not just tribal... it’s that increasingly we are unable to turn off and disconnect from the virtual world... we are literally interacting through a pseudo-real dimension in the mind precisely because we cannot put our phones down.

I recently read through the post about inner monologues and I was surprised a) there were so many people who have entire theoretical conversations in their head and b) that post had so many comments - maybe it was the most comments in a single post ever.

So here’s the deal - humans talk to themselves as a matter of being human. Now, a sizable portion of a humans daily interactions are online where societal norms have been adjusted, there’s simply no way the inner dialogue in the real world isn’t being impacted by this - just look at how teenage life has been decimated over recent years.

As for what to do about it. #1, you personally have responsibility for making sure your inner dialogue is healthy and isn’t 100% from online sources, #2 you have to unplug for much more of the day than you think, #3 a good book wouldn’t hurt, #4 you need to learn more about history than you think — a good book that explores the topic of mob mentality in US politics is Six Frigates by Ian W Toll. You literally won’t believe how the period between the revolutionary war and the war of 1812 mirrors modern day until you read this, #5, have some empathy for other people regardless of their viewpoints, #6 realize that no matter who is in charge, it’s going to be ok.

I can’t tell you how many people I know literally went apeshit when Obama got elected, sold all their stocks, bought gold and prepared for Armageddon. I also can’t tell you many people literally went apeshit when trump got elected, sold all their stock... to both groups, I say how’d that work out for you? Not very well and yet life goes on.

You kind of have to be a little meh about everything...that’s my view anyway...

> toxic environment is toxic.

agree. but online trolling or banter isn't a toxic environment so its not toxic.

you would censor them? now THAT is a toxic environment.