A good first start would be to teach the old maxim, "don't believe everything you read," in schools more. Most kids have only heard this phrase a few times in their lives and never really process it in their everyday lives. It would do a lot of good.
Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
201–210 of 859 posts
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#202Encourage people to participate in physical social gatherings that center around non-political issues, like hobbies. We need to start emphasizing what we have in common, help people see that ultimately we're really not all that different from each other. The internet lets people hide behind this isolating veneer that makes it too easy to just shout at each other and behave in extreme ways that would never be socially…
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Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
In other words, except for the scale, and the fact that it's infected the mainstream media, and the accelerants making it even worse, it's the same old thing? So we can summarize as "there's been a huge uptick in the toxicity online (which was always there)?"
You’re asserting that it’s worse like that’s a fact. It’s not. It’s much better than the old days now that many accounts are tied to your real name, and since enforcement of community standards became commonplace. The US political polarization is more widespread, on and offline, but online discourse is still pretty mild compared to the old days of greater anonymity.
What accounts are tied to your real name? I don't use any facebook products so don't know about that, but don't know of any other that are tied to my name.
Enforcement of community standards has backfired in the form of weaponised censorship.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#204I think, the problem is actually deeper in the society. From what I could observe, once the our basic food/shelter needs are satisfied, we humans have an inherent need for long-term goals. Like slowly progressing one's career, or growing one's small business. Self-actualization, something to put your passion into.
For instance, I myself am running a bootstrapped software business, draw immense positive energy from seeing satisfied customers and feeling that I'm the person that made it possible.
As far as I can see, due to commoditization of most labor (better organization, moving of production offshore), it is becoming harder and harder for people to self-actualize professionally. It's hard to draw personal satisfaction from driving Ubers all day or being a cog in a corporate machine. You perfectly know that one day you can be replaced by a fresh graduate with a minimal training who would do just as fine. You can no longer have a self-identity as "the best baker in town", because most people buy bread from a supermarket. There are certainly artists, video bloggers, etc, but it's a tiny percentage of the population and it pays a fraction of what the soul-crushing corporate jobs do.
So, since people cannot self-actualize professionally, they seek it elsewhere. Since the West has a culture of openness and acceptance to all kinds of minorities and subcultures, many people's self-identity becomes their belonging to a certain social group and their feeling of self-growth comes from having others acknowledge their point of view. Except, this is a zero-sum game: instead of creating value for those who need it, people begin competing for other's attention and alignment.
For instance, if I am selling ice cream and the guy across the road is selling chocolate cakes, we're at peace with each other because whoever wants ice cream will come to me and whoever wants chocolate cakes will come across the road. But if I go on a crusade trying to convince everyone that ice cream is the only correct desert, while my neighbor does the same for chocolate cakes, we quickly become political enemies intolerant of each other.
To sum it up, if you want to fix it for yourself, put your passion into something that creates value rather than aims at redistributing it, and you will feel much better. This would be extremely hard in the current economy though, and yes, it feels sucky because the previous generations sort of had it for granted. I've no idea how to fix it globally.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#205Stop responding to it. No seriously, just stop. This isn't a "complex problem that needs nuanced technical and legislative solutions". Back in the old day, there was this saying. "Do not feed the trolls". Sadly, we've forgotten that. Our current approach is, "create rigorous 30 minute point by point take down videos to defeat their point of view". Our urge to debate and correct people who are wrong just fuels them ma…
Completely off topic, but I love your HN handle!
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#206Stop responding to it. No seriously, just stop. This isn't a "complex problem that needs nuanced technical and legislative solutions". Back in the old day, there was this saying. "Do not feed the trolls". Sadly, we've forgotten that. Our current approach is, "create rigorous 30 minute point by point take down videos to defeat their point of view". Our urge to debate and correct people who are wrong just fuels them ma…
"Stop responding to it."
Then they win elections.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
The desire to "correct" other people who are wrong is the fundamental impulse of authoritarianism.
Furthermore, it is rationalism which exists as the first non religious justification of hierarchy. Read Plato.
"People are lying" - "They'd say that you are lying" - "BUT I AM RIGHT".
That's not rationalism, that's just saying "I'm right, they are wrong, end of discussion".
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#208I believe consensus building tools could help a lot to guide toxic conversations in a more civilized direction.
Check these articles for ideas how that might be accomplished:
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#209I think most people would be less toxic if their posts and comments were both (1) public and (2) linked to their real name. Someone posting anonymously or under a pseudonym has nothing to lose. He might not intend to offend, but he has no reason to guard his tone or consider how his audience will receive him. Someone who posts under his real name on Facebook but only shouts into an echo chamber filled with like-minde…
I think exactly the reverse. Posting anonymously (without a pseudo-identity even) means that you are more likely to speak your mind and less likely to try to win internet points. It also helps with making sure that your community will not become an echo-chamber.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#210I was hoping that cannabis legalization was going to mellow people out but that seems to be taking longer than anticipated. In the absence of widespread cannabis use around the world, I'd like to see people getting to know about people unlike themselves and discovering everything they have in common. The easiest way to destroy an enemy is by becoming a friend.