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Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

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Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#131

Post by rstupek »

scottlocklin wrote: post #77

>I've noticed a huge uptick in the toxicity online in the last 5-7 years. You're crazy my dude(tte). I've been on the interbutts since 1991 and Usenet days, and it's exactly as it always was. The big difference is we have reporter ding dongs on Twitter thinking Twitter, aka the comments section they removed from their web presence, is the real world. Also old people on Facebook who never learned the lessons of being…

I'm really tired of mainstream articles which are essentially a reporting finding 3 people on twitter who are for/against something and saying "internet is in uproar about whatever"

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#132

Post by dragonwriter »

> Before, around 2010-2012, people who disagreed would usually leave it at that and walk away respectfully

That's never (even before the internet) been true in unmoderated open online fora, and it's still true in closed and heavily moderated fora that seek that outcome.

Unmoderated open fora have probably become more dominant because effective moderation doesn't scale.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#133

Post by pier25 »

It has always been like this as far as I can remember.

It's probably more annoying now since:

1) There is a lot more people online now than 10 years ago. We've gone from being in the far west to the industrial phase of the internet.

2) Since the web 2.0 thing there are now comments everywhere. It became even worse with social media.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#134

Post by learnstats2 »

How is this fixed, truthfully? By censoring or oppressing one side of the argument, so that divergence from the status quo becomes invisible or perhaps illegal.

People disagree; people have always disagreed. The fact that we are now repeatedly being told this is "toxic" is part of an ongoing campaign to suppress dissenting voices.

It seems often to be the case that speech which oppresses people is "free"; while speech which identifies that oppression is "toxic".

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#136

Post by stronglikedan »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #127

It has always been a problem, but I agree it has gotten worse. The problem is that it has gotten worse in the real world too. Ive had friends family and strangers yell at me over minor political disagreements, and its not primarily coming from any particular side or group. You would think they were trying to fight about something important like emacs or vim. But why is this happening recently? I think the rise of sma…

> The problem is that it has gotten worse in the real world too. Ive had friends family and strangers yell at me over minor political disagreements, and its not primarily coming from any particular side or group.

I've heard this said quite a bit, but I have yet to experience it, and I live in a major metropolitan area. I hope I'm not just one of the lucky ones, and this stuff is more limited IRL than most people think.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#137

Post by throwaway122619 »

scottlocklin wrote: post #77

>I've noticed a huge uptick in the toxicity online in the last 5-7 years. You're crazy my dude(tte). I've been on the interbutts since 1991 and Usenet days, and it's exactly as it always was. The big difference is we have reporter ding dongs on Twitter thinking Twitter, aka the comments section they removed from their web presence, is the real world. Also old people on Facebook who never learned the lessons of being…

Adding to your point, I'm wondering if OP has ever had a religious group show up at their doorstep. It's the same idea; "Our ideas are right, yours are wrong." There are no laws stopping them from doing this, (short of solicitation statutes) and there's certainly no convincing them they are wrong. Just smile politely and ignore them.

Really, it's the same problem just dressed up differently. Now the issue just has these new buzzwords attached to it like "algorithm" and "data privacy" and whatnot. Nothing will change until people learn to leave their pride on their desktop, but that's not the way of some cultures.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#138

Post by yodsanklai »

> So how do we fix this?

Do not participate in forums where this type of behavior happens. And participate actively in moderation (flag/upvote/downvote) to keep forums civil and interesting.

I'd say forums aren't well-suited to discuss political issues. But I agree that tech could help. For instance, Stack Exchange Politics is readable but last time I checked, it didn't really provide much value. Mostly, arguing about politics is a waste of time, on a forum or anywhere else.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#139

Post by StevePerkins »

slumdev wrote: post #103

I think most people would be less toxic if their posts and comments were both (1) public and (2) linked to their real name. Someone posting anonymously or under a pseudonym has nothing to lose. He might not intend to offend, but he has no reason to guard his tone or consider how his audience will receive him. Someone who posts under his real name on Facebook but only shouts into an echo chamber filled with like-minde…

> I think most people would be less toxic if their posts and comments were both (1) public and (2) linked to their real name.

Counterargument:

https://www.facebook.com

Q.E.D.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#140

Post by blululu »

krapp wrote: post #18
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things with HN compared to FB et al is that HN isn't a for-profit company. It's essentially a public service of YC. They don't make a dime off of this, as far as I can see. Because of that, they don't have to do evil engagement-boosting tricks to try to make more dimes.

>They don't make a dime off of this, as far as I can see. Maybe not directly, but every YC company advertises themselves and their projects here, and HN is known as the hub for the SV tech and startup scene, which gives YC an automatic amount of "street cred" and visibility in all of the discussions had here. I'm sure Hacker News has made YCombinator more than a few dimes indirectly from all of that.

In general internet communities face a trade off between monetization and quality. The more you monetize a community the crappier it becomes. In the long term, the key to running a healthy online community is to find a good balance, which essentially means figuring out how to not make too much money.
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