The answer is heavy handed moderation. You need active moderators who discourage toxic comments and commenting patterns, and give out punishments to repeat offenders. I don't know the the guys at HN do it since there are so few of them, but I like their method of leaving a comment why someone's comment is toxic (usually against guidelines).
Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
121–130 of 859 posts
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#122I think the rising sense of division is caused by social networking sites that are increasingly interest-based or focused on small communities. When every interaction is focused around people who already agree with you, it begins to feel like the whole world agrees with you on everything. This is a pretty pleasant feeling. But then when someone wanders in to your sphere with a different point of view, the interactions are vitriolic. This is most notable on social networking sites like Twitter where you mostly follow / interact with people who agree with you, but randos can jump in out of nowhere and stir the pot.
I believe that we, as a society need to engage with one another better. Be less quick to judge. Be less quick to mock. Learn to get along with people that hold views that are antithetical to our own -- just like we have to in the real world. And when someone comes in to your community with the explicit intent of disruption, simply ignore them.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#123>I've noticed a huge uptick in the toxicity online in the last 5-7 years. You're crazy my dude(tte). I've been on the interbutts since 1991 and Usenet days, and it's exactly as it always was. The big difference is we have reporter ding dongs on Twitter thinking Twitter, aka the comments section they removed from their web presence, is the real world. Also old people on Facebook who never learned the lessons of being…
So basically, people are assholes and always have been.
Something stuck with me a long time ago when I was watching tv a lot, there was a character on Scrubs named "Dr Cox" who said people are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
When someone on the street corner tells you the world is ending you ignore them. You dont need a complex technical or social solution. When someone tells me that xyz plant oil cures cancer or the earth is flat... I ignore them. If I want to be a troll I may play along or challenge them if its fun. That's the internet. There have always been nutters- they just found other nutters to talk with and you get a loud feedba…
I don't think ignoring the nutters is viable. Enough people are believing anti-vax lies to start bringing back deadly disease which affect more than just themselves. Enough people are believing climate change propaganda which is slowly harming the habitability of our planet for our human race. What was once contained on the internet is leaking out onto the streets and is already affecting you and I in many ways.
Propaganda has always been there.
During the Golden Age of broadcast TV and Radio (pre-internet), the big networks broadcasted plenty of unchallenged lies. The difference now is that laymen can fact check the content put out by the big players. But the price for this is that every troll or nutter has access to the some of the same tools to spread their own lunacy.
I far prefer the current situation over the previous. While it may have felt more comfortable when people believed that news readers were telling the truth or reporting truth, it never was that way.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#125Stop responding to it. No seriously, just stop. This isn't a "complex problem that needs nuanced technical and legislative solutions". Back in the old day, there was this saying. "Do not feed the trolls". Sadly, we've forgotten that. Our current approach is, "create rigorous 30 minute point by point take down videos to defeat their point of view". Our urge to debate and correct people who are wrong just fuels them ma…
What's new is the political Echochambers. Stop feeding partisan BS. You are not Left nor Right!
Even those have been around on the internet since the dawn of the internet.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
We found a lot of lies during the UK election last month. Not difference in opinions, not beliefs about whay may or will happen, easily proven lies, posted across community forums, copied and pasted to other ones, and repeated in an increasing cresendo People then believe those lies, they repeat them, and even if they don't those lies sink into their subconcious and change their behavior, not necessarily today or tom…
> Ignoring them doesn't fix the problem. "The problem". What problem are we talking about again here? Is the problem that people are believing wrong things, or the spread of polarization and toxicity? I don't care if people believe "wrong things". How's that old song go? "All lies and jests, still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest"? People will always believe whatever they want to, regardless…
> I don't care if people believe "wrong things".
But those beliefs lead to actions, which have negative consequences, which can affect us all.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#127It has always been a problem, but I agree it has gotten worse. The problem is that it has gotten worse in the real world too. Ive had friends family and strangers yell at me over minor political disagreements, and its not primarily coming from any particular side or group. You would think they were trying to fight about something important like emacs or vim.
But why is this happening recently? I think the rise of smart phones has facilitated way more people engaging on the internet instead of just browsing. This in turn has opened up people to the vast amount of viewpoints in the world, and unfortunately people tend to get angry at people that are different.
Another thing that has become a problem is people being paid to support or attack a cause. These professional rabble rousers are stirring up shit inside of people that would rather just have a sandwhich.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might find that the people you see posting and repeating these lies see the things that you post and repeat as lies.
They frequently do see things in that way - and they're wrong. In fact, they're worse than wrong, because many people see the dueling assertions of fact and give up on knowing the truth of a situation altogether. This is a classic disinformation technique. We do have the ability to determine truth from fiction, it just takes more work than cynically throwing up your hands and smugly concluding all sides are lying.
I definitely wasn't cynically throwing up my hands and smugly concluding all sides are lying. All I intended to do was demonstrate how cheap it is to call someone a liar on the internet. It costs nothing to the reputations of you or your "lying friend" to call one another a liar and thats why it doesn't mean anything. The sooner people realize this the better off we'll be.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
The claim was that people were motivated to argue by the ease of the target rather than by the genuine threat of harm. In the case of anti-vax, I don't agree. I think people see a threat to their kids and react accordingly.
Anti-vaxxers are only a threat to kids who have another health condition that prevents them from being vaxinated. So, in most cases, it's a threat to somebody else's kids (who isn't even present in the conversation) not a threat to the anti-anti-vaxxer's kids.
This is not true. Vaccinations are not 100% effective. They're usually in the range of 90% to 99% effective. Protection also wanes over time. Because of this, herd immunity protects everyone, not just those who are unable to be vaccinated for health reasons.
Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
They frequently do see things in that way - and they're wrong. In fact, they're worse than wrong, because many people see the dueling assertions of fact and give up on knowing the truth of a situation altogether. This is a classic disinformation technique. We do have the ability to determine truth from fiction, it just takes more work than cynically throwing up your hands and smugly concluding all sides are lying.
The desire to "correct" other people who are wrong is the fundamental impulse of authoritarianism.
> The desire to "correct" other people who are wrong is the fundamental impulse of authoritarianism.
Maybe, but it's also the impulse of people who rightly care about the future of our shared world.