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EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

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Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#11

Post by Rebelgecko »

What does this mean in practice? Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs?

It sounds like they're trying to standardize the actual chargers, I wonder how that will work USB-PDs many different modes? What about proprietary fast charging schemes? (maybe those already died out after the move to USB-c?).

I'm slightly uncomfortable with the idea of a universal standard stifling innovation, so hopefully the EU will be responsive if something better gets invented in the future. I'm guessing that whatever comes after USB-C will exist in the US and Asia for years before its allowed in the EU... which may or may not be a good thing I suppose. USB-C as a plug has so many capabilities.

It's interesting that they're looking at wireless charging too. Other than my toothbrush and an induction stove, I can't remember the last time I saw wireless charging that wasn't Qi. The only exception is some of the experimental room-scale charging startups. I suppose they're already fighting against the laws of physics, the laws of the EU can't be that much worse.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#12

Post by martin8412 »

I still don't quite understand what this actually means, and frankly I'm not certain that the politicians understand it either.

Is it just on the connector? Is it the charger plug? Amount of wires in the cable? Cable gauge? Power rating? Proprietary charging protocols?

If everything about charging portable devices must be truly universal, then every single piece of the puzzle must be the same for everyone. Sure, Apple is the most prominent example because they use a different connector, but should things like Qualcomm's proprietary charging protocols not also be banned then? Unless they're willing to license it for free to everyone

How much power should the chargers be rated for? 5W, 18W, 50W? Different devices have different power requirements, so should we just have all chargers rated at the max that the spec allows for?

Just because the connector is the same also does not mean that the devices will actually work together, lightning cables already have the requirement of MFI certification from Apple, and they could probably do the exact same over a USB-C cable.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#13

Post by toomuchtodo »

aaronmdjones wrote: post #9
throwGuardian wrote: post #4

Why should the EU government impose restrictions on mobile charger types? I'm no fan of Apple,and frankly, I find it gratifying that someone is pushing them around - something Apple routinely does to entities that aren't as powerful, but regulating chargers in the name of __insert_populist_reason__ is just way too authoritarian by the EU. Please go solve real problems

Electronic waste created because you can't use the charger from $vendor_x with a mobile device from $vendor_y -- and subsequently have no use for the charger -- is a Real Problem. This is a step toward solving that, and thus, they are solving real problems.

What about mandating Qi wireless charging as well? Think of it as mandating Bluetooth; you don’t care about the hardware, just meeting the wireless interface spec.

If I could ubiquitously charge my mobile devices anywhere with gear built into my surroundings, I’d likely never need future charging cables or hardware.

You lose some electrical efficiency but gain a reduction in physical hardware churn.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#14

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #11

What does this mean in practice? Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs? It sounds like they're trying to standardize the actual chargers, I wonder how that will work USB-PDs many different modes? What about proprietary fast charging schemes? (maybe those already died out after the move to USB-c?).…

> Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs?

It looks more like the latter. After all, Apple is the odd one out now.

https://www.androidcentral.com/eu-may-push-iphones-adopt-usb...

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#15

Post by ddlsmurf »

martin8412 wrote: post #12

I still don't quite understand what this actually means, and frankly I'm not certain that the politicians understand it either. Is it just on the connector? Is it the charger plug? Amount of wires in the cable? Cable gauge? Power rating? Proprietary charging protocols? If everything about charging portable devices must be truly universal, then every single piece of the puzzle must be the same for everyone. Sure, Appl…

I don't think they work at that level of detail that high up, they just vote "make it universal" and then a bunch of other regulatory bodies need to setup the exact requirements and negotiate them.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#16

Post by t223 »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #3
epicgiga wrote: post #2

Standardizing (controlling) by fiat tech they didn't make, with no real need or justification. Just for the sake of the flex, being busybodies, and pretending they're important and "the boss of you". Sooner that rabble gets overthrown the better. One domino has fallen now, hope the rest follow in short order.

We see lots of this mouth-frothing, hate-fulled rhetoric on reddit, and IMHO I don't want it to spread.

I believe it’s too late. In my opinion the current political climate has fueled outrage culture and from my perspective things have gone from bad to worse.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#17

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #11

What does this mean in practice? Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs? It sounds like they're trying to standardize the actual chargers, I wonder how that will work USB-PDs many different modes? What about proprietary fast charging schemes? (maybe those already died out after the move to USB-c?).…

About a year ago someone posted a "Look at the cool stuff I bought/saw on my trip to Shenzen" blog post and one of the items featured was a bastardized Chinese USB-C and Lightening cable that technically met neither spec but worked with either. I think you'll see a lot of those for sale.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#18

Post by [deleted] »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14
Rebelgecko wrote: post #11

What does this mean in practice? Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs? It sounds like they're trying to standardize the actual chargers, I wonder how that will work USB-PDs many different modes? What about proprietary fast charging schemes? (maybe those already died out after the move to USB-c?).…

> Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs? It looks more like the latter. After all, Apple is the odd one out now. https://www.androidcentral.com/eu-may-push-iphones-adopt-usb...

[deleted]

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#19

Post by GeekyBear »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #14
Rebelgecko wrote: post #11

What does this mean in practice? Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs? It sounds like they're trying to standardize the actual chargers, I wonder how that will work USB-PDs many different modes? What about proprietary fast charging schemes? (maybe those already died out after the move to USB-c?).…

> Are Android phone makers going to have to license the Lightning port from Apple? Or is the EU going to declare that USB-C is the be all end all of phone plugs? It looks more like the latter. After all, Apple is the odd one out now. https://www.androidcentral.com/eu-may-push-iphones-adopt-usb...

Apple's chargers already have moved to USB-C.

It's the cable included in the box with newer iPhones that is USB-C on one end and lightning on the other.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#20

Post by aaronmdjones »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
aaronmdjones wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronic waste created because you can't use the charger from $vendor_x with a mobile device from $vendor_y -- and subsequently have no use for the charger -- is a Real Problem. This is a step toward solving that, and thus, they are solving real problems.

What about mandating Qi wireless charging as well? Think of it as mandating Bluetooth; you don’t care about the hardware, just meeting the wireless interface spec. If I could ubiquitously charge my mobile devices anywhere with gear built into my surroundings, I’d likely never need future charging cables or hardware. You lose some electrical efficiency but gain a reduction in physical hardware churn.

Mandating wireless charging is still a bit of a stretch (it's not popular yet, so would be a short-term cost and manufacturing increase), but wireless charging is mentioned in the linked article as something they should look into ensuring is broadly-compatible (which should help prevent incompatibility waste when it does become ubiquitous).

Also, presently anyway, wireless charging generally has power limits on the order of 5 watts, while the USB 3 PD spec allows for up to 100. A modern mobile phone pulls more than 5 watts from a wall charger, so mandating wireless charging would also result in a short-term charging time increase. They're also not as easy to transport and use anywhere (e.g. on a train with a power socket but without a tray table). Many people would find that unacceptable.

My Nexus 5 had wireless charging, I had that phone for more than 3 years, and I never got to use it before it died and I upgraded to a 6P, which doesn't have it.

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