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Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

bloomberg.com

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Re: Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

#221

Post by nradov »

somurzakov wrote: post #125
nradov wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2007 an oral surgeon gave me a prescription for opioid painkillers after a wisdom tooth extraction, just in case I needed it for pain. The pain wasn't very bad and I never filled the prescription, but in retrospect giving me that prescription in the first place was just crazy! Another doctor gave my wife an opioid painkiller prescription upon hospital discharge after a normal childbirth, just in case she needed it…

this is to prevent you from going to the ER and getting an enormous bill. sometimes after tooth extraction a condition called "dry socket" can develop and it will cause enormous pain. opioids solve that until your next regular visit to a doctor. otherwise you could feel terrible pain and go to ER in the night with all the consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_osteitis

Thanks but I'm already familiar with the potential complications. The reality is that many people have become addicted following dental procedures.

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2018/12/opioid-prescr...

Re: Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

#222

Post by nradov »

kube-system wrote: post #141
nradov wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2007 an oral surgeon gave me a prescription for opioid painkillers after a wisdom tooth extraction, just in case I needed it for pain. The pain wasn't very bad and I never filled the prescription, but in retrospect giving me that prescription in the first place was just crazy! Another doctor gave my wife an opioid painkiller prescription upon hospital discharge after a normal childbirth, just in case she needed it…

Those 'just in case' scripts are usually combined medications that are short enough in duration that they don't pose much risk of dependency.

Recent research indicates otherwise.

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2018/12/opioid-prescr...

Re: Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

#224

Post by DarthGhandi »

ska wrote: post #121
mtgx wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are going to go to prison for this, right? Or has all white crime been made legal in America? Because I can't tell anymore.

Or has all white crime been made legal in America? Can you think of a time when it was significantly more likely for something like this to end up with execs in jail?

Martin Shkreli was doomed from the start, never underestimate the power of being the media's boogieman.

His crime was essentially using investors funds improperly, all ended paid back in full, many made decent profits.

Re: Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

#225

Post by rolltiide »

jessaustin wrote: post #202
rolltiide wrote: post #115

the market will always gravitate towards products that scale, that's all drugs are. when you become more efficient it is intangible easily replicable things. I think a quadrant based graph makes this more apparent and can influence public policy

Could you flesh this out a bit more? What are the two axes of the quadrant?

Liquidity, overhead

Maybe a z-axis for margins

Re: Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

#226

Post by IanSanders »

coldcode wrote: post #7

Yet all that happens is they pay a small fine and promise not to do it again. Tell that to all the families who lost people to opioids.

Here's one solution: in addition to charging a one-off fine, increase tax rates of responsible people/entities.

Re: Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

#228

Post by noir_lord »

WorldMaker wrote: post #170
mcguire wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or management, those Snidely Whiplash types who create unethical requirements for innocent programmers to implement.

More reasons to push for Professional Ethics Boards with teeth and/or unions with ethics rules.

As software continues to become a structural part of society that becomes more and more evident.

Civil engineers cracked the problem mostly by been able to say know and know that they had top-cover.

Re: Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

#229

Post by kangaroozach »

pintxo wrote: post #11
codeulike wrote: post #5

[when opening a patients records] a pop-up would appear, asking about a patient’s level of pain. Then, a drop-down menu would list treatments ranging from a referral to a pain specialist to a prescription for an opioid painkiller. Click a button, and the program would create a treatment plan. From 2016 to spring 2019, the alert went off about 230 million times. The tool existed thanks to a secret deal. Its maker, a s…

One doctors quote in the article says it all: > But, “if you want to model electronic health records as a for-profit system and not regulate them as such and force doctors to be on them, it’s almost inevitable that they’re going to be manipulated.”

If by manipulated he means continually improved through competitive pressure to on the whole deliver a better experience for less cost than the competition, then sure.

All drugs are always on the table for doctors to choose from. It’s their responsibility to choose wisely and responsibly, even in the face of for profit nudges to behave a certain way.

Re: Health-records software pushed opioids to doctors in secret deal with drugmaker

#230

Post by kangaroozach »

avgDev wrote: post #204
horsawlarway wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue it's actually MUCH worse than simply killing people (which is already pretty staggeringly bad). The constant push to privatize and let market forces drive medical interactions is CRUSHING trust in the system. Let's take an example patient, Sally. Sally goes to see her doctor, she's got some minor knee pain, but nothing serious. As a result of this profit motivated system, her doctor is likely to try to pres…

The problem is the US health care system. In a civilized nation, doctor orders a medical test, you get the medical test and you are not charged $1000+ for it. Prices are regulated. US health care system is very predatory. Even if the doctor had the right intentions and you go to scammy place for tests the experience will be negative.Then, if you can't make the payment and are ashamed to call and negotiate the bill it…

Prices are regulated is the problem!

Prices should be ‘regulated’ by REAL price transparency and consumer choice! The prices will self regulate based on the market.

AND insurance can be privately bought to protect against the chance that you get stuck with something expensive. Just like insurance against your house burning, car crashing, or dealer getting a blackjack.

The idea that regulating the price through government will lead to more efficient system with lower costs and better outcomes is a fallacy. Even NASA is being outdone by private space exploration. Government regulation simply can not compete with a truly free market where consumers have access to information, prices, and can make decisions for themselves.

CHOICE is what is required to optimize the solution. Regulation is mostly a fallacy. Regulation is required for certain protections, but not a reliable means to get the system to deliver the optimal outcomes and the lowest costs.

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