Live data from Hacker News

California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

usatoday.com

261–270 of 461 posts

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#261
So, I guess the question is, if tech companies keep feeding the monster, they are complicit in this.

California is not just SV for a start. What's the point of having all your workers in a high CoL area again?

Get a small office to appease VCs but have your workers somewhere else. Your money will go further as well

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Principled is a way of making it sound less terrible than 'restrained'. California is a perfect example of what happens when you let environmentalists handle housing policy, the poor suffer because environmentalism is classism in disguise in these social contexts.

This is literally the exact opposite of what an environmentalist would want in terms of urban growth and planning. Environmentally friendly planning means you have housing near where people work to avoid highly polluting long commutes. The problem is NIMBY bullshit in the purest sense. People will use every excuse in the book to prevent new housing in their neighborhood. While a fair amount of the time environmental…

[dead]

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#263
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A totally free market results in monopolies In cases where there is a natural monopoly (because economies of scale outweigh the deadweight costs of a larger firm), yes. Historically such cases are rare. Most historical cases of monopoly are due to government interference, not free markets. Indeed, the word "monopoly" originally meant a government-granted exclusive right to sell some particular good or service.

I'm not completely sure about the etymology of the word, but I do know that in the US, most monopolies were not government granted. They were achieved through aggressive M&A, market manipulation, and other abusive practices (much of which should be seen as a negative externality on the affected human communities). That is exactly why the government was granted significant power to restrain concentrated entities from…

This isn’t true. The only industry I’m aware of that might actually be a natural monopoly, as in the efficient number of companies is one, is aircraft manufacturing. Local utilities aren’t natural monopolies, cable isn’t a natural monopoly, water, gas, electricity, these definitely aren’t natural monopolies.

If manufacturing semiconductors, with fabs that cost tens of billions of dollars isn’t a natural monopoly, why do we think anything is?

> The Myth ofNatural Monopoly Thomas J. DiLorenzo

> It is a myth that natural monopoly theory was developed first by economists, and then used by legislators to "justify" franchise monopolies. The truth is that the monopolies were created decades before the theory was formalized by intervention-minded economists, who then used the theory as an ex post rationale for government intervention. At the time when the first government franchise monopolies were being granted, the large majority of economists understood that large-scale, capital intensive production did not lead to monopoly, but was an absolutely desirable aspect of the competitive process.

https://cdn.mises.org/rae9_2_3_3.pdf

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's unique to environmentalists, turns out a big subset of everyone is selfish like that.

Preserving nice low density areas is not selfish. Why does everyone need to be entitled to live anywhere they want?

[deleted]

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#265
post #149
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil

Yes, Standard Oil, whose major "crime" was selling oil more cheaply than all of its competitors.

Don’t forget constantly increasing quality as well as falling prices.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#266
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's unique to environmentalists, turns out a big subset of everyone is selfish like that.

Yes, it may be selfish, but for environmentalists it is selfish and hypocritical. I'm specifically looking at the wealthy, anti-growth, green community on the SF Peninsula.

There are plenty of hypocrites on both sides of the isle. Lots of people who claim to be against regulation... unless it's on their block. People who are environmentalists... unless it means there will be an apartment complex put up next door blocking their view. People who are pro-growth and pro-business... unless it's in their neighborhood. People who are for making housing more affordable, etc etc etc.

So-called environmentalists don't have a monopoly on hypocrisy, it's pretty much universal.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#267
post #194
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This November a supervisor will lose re-election, since both the current incumbent Ahsha Safaí (who supported SB 50 as well as housing developments in his district) and the previously termed-out John Avalos (who opposed SB 50) are running for re-election in District 11 (Excelsior and Ingleside).

I think "re-election" generally refers specifically to an incumbent winning an election, rather than just any time someone wins more than one election.

Avalos is running for the same office that he held 12 to 4 years ago. In San Francisco, BoS members are termed out after 8 consecutive years but can come back after waiting a term.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#268
Well, I guess I’ll just copy/paste my comment from another unrelated HN story 10 minutes ago:

“And once again, any US organization allowed to use a .gov domain loses yet ANOTHER notch of credibility, and confidence in their competence.“

Our “Governments“ are becoming obsolete... meanwhile we’ll continue to delegate more and more of the responsibilities to provide the utilities we need to technology companies.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess at the end of the day those who own property will do what feels good for them. It’s funny to see non owners seem up of ways property owners could do with their ‘wealth’. Guess what, they own property in the hot Bay Area market by virtue of..wait for it..being here and working before most of us were born! So we can sit here on hacker news and think of all that they need to do to make us feel better, but it mea…

> There are no victims. What a ridiculous take. Besides, the problem of people wanting to remain in their existing homes is trivially solvable by deferring property taxes as liens against the property to be paid on the death of the owner. Average property tax in California is ~1%, so a person could live an entire lifetime without having to pay anything. But of course that was never the real reason anyone supported th…

Sorry. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t tax people for living in the properties they own. Property taxes are just another way to ensure that one never owns their homes 100%. Leins? Who in their right minds would agree to this?

When you want someone to part with their money or wealth, you have to give them a reason to do so. ‘We want what you have’ is not a good reason. It becomes a punitive tax and is based on coercion.

I see no valid arguments or offers that would make people agree to higher taxation.

The have-nots want to take more from the haves. This has happened many many times in the past. It comes from lack. Not logic.

Re: California's housing bill SB 50 has died in the state Senate

#270
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A totally free market results in monopolies In cases where there is a natural monopoly (because economies of scale outweigh the deadweight costs of a larger firm), yes. Historically such cases are rare. Most historical cases of monopoly are due to government interference, not free markets. Indeed, the word "monopoly" originally meant a government-granted exclusive right to sell some particular good or service.

I'm not completely sure about the etymology of the word, but I do know that in the US, most monopolies were not government granted. They were achieved through aggressive M&A, market manipulation, and other abusive practices (much of which should be seen as a negative externality on the affected human communities). That is exactly why the government was granted significant power to restrain concentrated entities from…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN