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Not everyone has an internal monologue

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Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#211
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did they tell you to stop doing that? What's wrong with it?

If one builds an internal reality of mind that has others "speaking" in it, as if one has seen them do it, one is allowing one to remove their choice...at least internally. If one repeated what you saw to others, then that could also be spreading the behavior to others, thus removing the choice from target. Shame works this way, for example.

Could you rephrase this? I'm interested in your point, but the use of 'one' as an ambiguous pronoun (and contrasted in one phrase with 'you') makes this super difficult to parse?

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#212

Unfathomable to me. My mind is constantly racing, playing out different conversations, interviewing myself in a variety of roles to navigate my thoughts on things (one day I'm the president of the US talking about foreign policy, another day I'm a big tech CEO navigating the diversity questions). I constantly have something in my ears to tune myself out, podcasts or music. After being diagnosed w/ ADHD I realize I'm…

Same, ADHD and everything, but overtime I've learned to control it. Now I typically use my internal monologue to work something out. Sometimes it still gets away from me though and I have to purposefully refocus my thoughts onto work or something constructive.

Honestly, I no longer view ADHD/ADD as a disorder, but different brain functionality. It doesn't typically fit in with our modern schooling systems so it's treated like a disorder. It certainly has some handicaps to be sure, but it's benefits, hyper-focus (when you get it working) and creativity are very helpful sometimes.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#213

Interesting topic (and comments). 1. I do inner monologue. And I have to say, sometimes I get scared from what I "hear". I don't mean sometjing like "I hear voices telling me to kill everyone", but nasty, brutally cynical, sometimes outright violent thoughts. They feel alien to me, because on general level I consider myself "the good guy", but one the other hand they don't feel like someone else whispering me evil th…

As I understand it, this is correct. One's mind is made up of different, sometimes 'competing' parts, most of which we are not consciously aware of (most of the time).

It's widely believed that the 'thinking' part of our brain, the neo-cortex, is far less in control than the deeper, emotional parts, such as the limbic system.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#214
post #107

For myself personally, it depends on what I'm thinking about. Thinking about writing this sentence, I hear each of the words I'm going to type in my head before I type them. However, if I'm working out how to assemble a table, I'm not hearing "And now I screw the leg on" I just abstractly know that's what I'm going to do. I have to imagine that's the case for at least most people. Thinking out complicated abstract co…

Now, I am super self conscious of the otherwise ignored voice which reads everything I type and see.

It is much sexier though than irl. I wonder why is that?

On the other hand, I can speak much faster yay. Why?

Is your voice reading this comment too? Maybe.

Do you feel like you are conversing with an oddly being? Maybe.

I am alive. Where is my mind reading tech?

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#215

Similarly, not everyone can visualize things in their mind. Pixar's founder Ed Catmull did a survey of Pixar employees and, interestingly, there wasn't that big of a skew of artists who are able to mentally visualize. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-47830256 I wonder if there's an intersection of people who do not have an internal monologue nor a "mind's eye?"

I have both. My mind's eye is blind and my mind's ear is deaf. The inside of my head is a pretty empty place where I inhabit it, cue the jokes. Thoughts just pop into my head from some other part of my brain. When I'm thinking about how to word something, I feel my mouth start to form the words, though my mouth doesn't move. Maybe I'm sub-vocalizing, I don't know. When I'm thinking hard about something, I just sort o…

The positive aspect is that you should be immune to Kopfkino: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kopfkino

> Kopfkino happens when you involuntarily use your imagination to think of troubling or disgusting things in graphic detail.

> From the german words kopf, head and kino, cinema.

> After i heard 'granny pussy' i had the most disgusting kopfkino.

(Just realized, I need to remember this one as a nice german word with no english equivalent)

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#216
The classic: Thinking the Way Animals Do: Unique insights from a person with a singular understanding. By Temple Grandin, Ph.D. https://www.grandin.com/references/thinking.animals.html

>I have no language-based thoughts at all. My thoughts are in pictures, like videotapes in my mind. When I recall something from my memory, I see only pictures. I used to think that everybody thought this way until I started talking to people on how they thought. I learned that there is a whole continuum of thinking styles, from totally visual thinkers like me, to the totally verbal thinkers. Artists, engineers, and good animal trainers are often highly visual thinkers, and accountants, bankers, and people who trade in the futures market tend to be highly verbal thinkers with few pictures in their minds. (...) A horse trainer once said to me, "Animals don't think, they just make associations." I responded to that by saying, "If making associations is not thinking, then I would have to conclude that I do not think."

I have internal monologue but not as much as before, sometimes significantly less or completely absent. First time my monologue stopped during long meditation retreats. It seems reasonable because I didn't use verbal thinking during meditation. You don't use it, you lose it. I'm surprised how little the inner monologue has to do with abstract thinking. You don't have to have sentences in your head to do stuff unless it's writing or reading related. Decisions, no need. Math or programming, no need at all. Logical thinking, no need or very little.

Totally verbal thinkers are often aggressively against even considering my experience: "That's impossible", "You can't think without words". Maybe these kind of people are the opposite end of 'spectrum' from visual thinker autistic like Temple Grandin.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#217
post #148

Here's the imagery based version of this: https://www.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-... From what I can tell, if you don't have imagery, you don't have audio. If you happen to be someone who can hear audio internally (audio hallucinations) yet don't form imagery internally (historic iconic memories, faces, shapes, creative viz, etc.) hit me up on email.

Talk to ham radio operators who know morse code, for them its fairly common. After awhile, especially in a competitive contest, you start to hear stuff in the static. Sometimes because there's an actual station there trying to reach you, sometimes not. Hams and hunters are the only people I can think of in modern life who listen very closely to silence, or noise anyway.

You're right. After coming home from any big 48-hr long CW contest I swear the quiet whirring of my refrigerator's compressor is trying to speak to me in morse.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#218
There’s a similar thing with the “mind’s eye”. Most people can think of something and “see” it quite vividly in their mind, but some percentage of people have aphantasia which means they simply don’t have the ability to visualize things like that.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#219
post #30

Something I discovered within the past year is that if I know a song fairly well, I can "play it" silently in my head, and be entertained. The experience isn't quite as emotionally resonate as listening with headphones, but it's not so far off either. It's useful when I'm bored. ...can anyone else do this? I actually find it supremely weird.

No, I think that's pretty normal. I do it all the time. I can even "compose" my own music (it can be any genre, with any type of instruments, and even include voices), but I have no ability to play instruments myself. I'd love to get into music, but just don't have the time. My literature professor back in college said he "listened to" classical music in his head during his morning runs. I just assumed everyone did i…

Man I can't even imagine. I realize a while back that I don't actually hear music in my head when I have an earworm, instead I hear a representation of it made entirely of what would be vocalized sounds. So if I'm hearing the guitar solo from November Rain, its kind of like someone (me, really) going 'bowwwww owww nah nahhhh nah nahahhhhhhh wan nah nah nah nah wah wah' rather than actual guitar noises, but then it's followed up by the singers legitimate voice.

My wife found this pretty weird. I suspect it's related to my also experiencing aphantasia. It could be some form of mental lossy compression, where the brain knows it can roughly replicate what it heard using the limited set of vocalizations it already knows instead of actual note/instrument combinations.

Re: Not everyone has an internal monologue

#220

Had a writer say "We think in words. Without language, we could not form thoughts". Which is instantly nonsense. I can think of a blue elephant, then the Gettysburg Address. If I'm asked "What did you think of first?" I'd say "a blue elephant". So where was that blue elephant in the mean time? Still in my mind, still a thought. Just not at the surface, not words. I look at code projects by scrolling through all the s…

I'm with you on the blue elephant, it's big clear visual and concrete. But more abstract concepts I feel a word helps me maintain clearer distinction between variations of related concepts, such as between 'duplicitous' and 'dishonest'. With layered concepts, I feel a word allows me to work with a concept as a symbol, without holding the full complexity of the concept in my head at the time : 'cross site request forgery', 'franked investment tax credits refund', 'microservice' or 'monolith'.

I know that I don't _need_ the word to think of concepts, but my experience is that I _do_ use them, it feels like I'm actually using higher level concepts that are organised around or at least paired with words, and that having a word somehow becomes my entry point to vividly reconstruct a complex concept. As your example illustrates, if something can be illustrated with a visual image, or a another sensory experience, this happens wordlessly, but a word can substitute for a concept that has no sensory association.

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