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The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

blogs.wsj.com

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Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#71

Post by jscore »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #15
hartror wrote: post #8

I would group it all into one tip: Make an effort with your relationship. Like everything good in life it takes work to have a good relationship. If you make an effort to have a good relationship, applying thought and energy day to day, you will grow a healthy satisfying relationship.

This works well for women, not so well for men. For men, typically making a visible effort will cause your spouse to perceive you as weak and low value. This will only make things worse.

You are correct, but it's a much more complicated topic (especially in the West).

Reading a book won't reverse decades of cultural conditioning.

I recommend getting a Brazilian or Colombian wife instead.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#72

Post by Dylanlacey »

roc wrote: post #34
hartror wrote: post #8

I would group it all into one tip: Make an effort with your relationship. Like everything good in life it takes work to have a good relationship. If you make an effort to have a good relationship, applying thought and energy day to day, you will grow a healthy satisfying relationship.

I wouldn't stop there. In my experience, people who nag believe themselves to be "making an effort". Indeed, they think they're doing the right thing . Willingness to put in the effort is a good first start, but it's not enough. Many people clearly don't understand why certain things do or don't work. And there's as much to be learned from study and experience in the right way to work at a relationship as there is in…

That's a good insite. I guess nagging is often somewhere that the maxim about doing shit (OK, less of a maxim, more of a statement: If shit needs doing... do it) needs to be applied.

If you've not gone to the point of setting up areas of responsibility and some means of ensuring things get done, your choices are either do it yourself or nag about it. I think the tendency is often towards the latter, when it should be the former.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#73

Post by randallsquared »

jedsmith wrote: post #19
yummyfajitas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works well for women, not so well for men. For men, typically making a visible effort will cause your spouse to perceive you as weak and low value. This will only make things worse.

[citation needed]

Please stop deleting your replies in this thread. It's becoming difficult to follow.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#74

Post by neworbit »

OasisG wrote: post #36
Swizec wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's just that, you know, nowadays they don't have to feel like prostitutes? Because I sure would if my spouse kept buying me things just so I'd put out.

You're right, women DON'T have to feel like prostitutes because the options for women have greatly expanded. We no longer have to be confined to the "traditional" roles that encourage us to be passive doormats content to be totally dependent on our spouses. My point, anyway, is that the men in the WSJ article cheering this drivel on are often the same guys who don't want to assume the traditional provider role for me…

...sounds like a nice daydream, but in real life, that would be pretty boring.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#75

Post by jobrahms »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #15
hartror wrote: post #8

I would group it all into one tip: Make an effort with your relationship. Like everything good in life it takes work to have a good relationship. If you make an effort to have a good relationship, applying thought and energy day to day, you will grow a healthy satisfying relationship.

This works well for women, not so well for men. For men, typically making a visible effort will cause your spouse to perceive you as weak and low value. This will only make things worse.

You overlook the fact that making effort (and most importantly following through) gets you sex. Happy wife = happy life. It's not beneath you to try to make your partner happy. And if she responds the way you're implying - I'm sorry, something is probably wrong with her.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#76

Post by haploid »

hartror wrote: post #52
_h4xr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend The Red Queen if you want to start learning about this. The short answer: men largely choose mates based on looks; women choose based more on social status. Signalling low social status reduces male attractiveness; signalling high social status raises it. n = 1, but this has worked for me. Deliberately act like you can take it or leave it, and you're unlikely to be left. (And note that women initiate the…

I love pop psychology books that tell me it is fine to be lazy and uncaring. /sarcasm We aren't talking about dating here, we are talking about long term relationships. The whole Red Queen thing breaks down when we add artificial human constructs such as marriage and monogamy. We are not a Silver Back leading a band of gorillas, we are far more complex than that. Sure, signalling plays a roll in initial conditions, i…

Just so I'm clear, are you suggesting that once one has consciously elected to enter into a long-term relationship, one's biological drives and genetic predispositions immediately shut down?

Genetic expression and disposition toward gene-propagating behaviors do not cease to operate, no matter how far removed we think we are from the "lowly" Silverback.

Your other points regarding human social behaviors are being quite a bit more complex than that of gorillas is correct, but I don't think recognition of that fact is sufficient basis for assuming that all other factors are suddenly irrelevant.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#77

Post by hartror »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #60
hartror wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love pop psychology books that tell me it is fine to be lazy and uncaring. /sarcasm We aren't talking about dating here, we are talking about long term relationships. The whole Red Queen thing breaks down when we add artificial human constructs such as marriage and monogamy. We are not a Silver Back leading a band of gorillas, we are far more complex than that. Sure, signalling plays a roll in initial conditions, i…

I love pop psychology books that tell me it is fine to be lazy and uncaring You are confusing normative and positive claims.

Sorry I don't understand your comment could you rephrase?

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#78

Post by colanderman »

jobrahms wrote: post #68
bartonfink wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I just need to figure out a good way to pass that hint along to my wife without her inferring that I hate her and don't ever want to speak to her about anything.

Family therapists know this stuff already. Tell her that you want to make your marriage everything it could be and more, etc, etc, and get her to a therapist, where she'll learn it for herself. Worked for me ;)

Sounds way more expensive than:

"Hunny, I appreciate that you want to help me remember what needs doing, but it's overwhelming if you tell me as soon as I come home from a long day at work. I know I have a habit of forgetting, so let's make a deal: if I forget to do something come 9 PM, I'll take on one of your chores the next day. Does that sound fair to you?"

Or if your SO can take the hint from humor: "If I had a nickel for every time you told me to take out the trash when I was about to do it..."

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#79

Post by jobrahms »

RickHull wrote: post #11
fefzero wrote: post #7

"But the real reason [married people gain weight] is moral hazard, or the tendency to take more risks and behave more irresponsibly when there are no consequences." I'd never equated being overweight as behaving irresponsibly. If everyone thought this way, would we all be thinner? If my spouse can't nag me to lose weight (see #1), is there anything she could do to encourage it, or is it all on me?

Funny, I can't imagine being overweight as anything but irresponsible (mod specific health issues). And it is pretty much all on you. One thing that can be very helpful is to schedule exercise with other people (e.g. spouse). It's easier to get going with a group, it's more fun, and there is a social cost to canceling. You don't even have to do the same exercises -- just go to the gym or pool or park or whatever and…

I agree that in the end it's personal responsibility that determines whether you're overweight or healthy. But it has to be said that it has become more difficult to be thin (at least in western societies) given the ease with which most of us can obtain high energy/fat foods. Add to that the fact that most food producers have profit margins as their motivators instead of the population's health, and you can see why it's getting harder.
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