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Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

dino.im

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Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#91

Post by emmelaich »

random3 wrote: post #78
rakoo wrote: post #64

While I've been a believer of XMPP and still believes it has a place, I have to admit that it doesn't have the appeal it once has. Now the IM protocol du jour is Matrix, which might or might not know the same fate; who knows. And another one might come later, and there are already others today that exist and are widely used. I think it's high time we had a concerted effort to have one great UI (probably per platform)…

I was going to mention SSBC (ssbc.github.io). Is there a good write-up comparing the two?

I guess you mean patchwork in particular?

> A decentralized messaging and sharing app built on top of Secure Scuttlebutt (SSB). https://www.scuttlebutt.nz

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#92

Post by ppjet6 »

rakoo wrote: post #64

While I've been a believer of XMPP and still believes it has a place, I have to admit that it doesn't have the appeal it once has. Now the IM protocol du jour is Matrix, which might or might not know the same fate; who knows. And another one might come later, and there are already others today that exist and are widely used. I think it's high time we had a concerted effort to have one great UI (probably per platform)…

I want to say "it's complicated".

Probably any single protocol could be used to build a client that Slack or WhatsApp or [insert your target here] users would appreciate with good designers, (and/or with really little to no education.)

Multi-protocol clients are generally not optimal. The set of features that can be used will be the lowest common denominator, and if it's not the case there will be discrepancies in the design.

(Same story for bridges.)

Every protocol has their set of trade-offs, and every developer has their opinion on what's best (or the least worst). Also not every developer work with designers or have designing skills(!)

It's good for developers to be able to write what they want and how they want it. It's fine if their intended target is already with their circle of friends on the platform (if their is a target at all). It's less practical if the target is outside and their circle is not on the platform (network effect/peer pressure etc.).

That's a general "issue" in Free Software, (I'd say in software, maybe anywhere? it's just more visible here.)

Some might say waste of resources, but who gets to decide what to do with others' free time.. no easy answers.

(Sorry to spoil the fun by trying to rationalize :p)

I for one value freedom, through decentralisation (or federation as some like to insist on), and as technicalities I believe standard and extensibility of said standard are necessary. XMPP seems to fit this role ok enough to me.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#93

Post by pmontra »

Uehreka wrote: post #83
dependenttypes wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is actually a good idea to use https rather than your own protocol because then your network provider/government will not be able to (easily) find out that you aren't just making https requests using your browser. Useful for people living in oppressive governments as well as employees/students under restrictive firewalls. In addition to that this will get more efficient once we have http over quic.

Bear in mind that when students and employees are on their school/work network, they often have to accept the network admin's certificate authority in order to be allowed to connect to the network. So effectively, the network admin can spoof SSL certificates and MITM traffic, even if it's encrypted.

If that's part of the threat model, a layer 7 protocol can encrypt and sign the payload. Then anybody terminating the connection wouldn't be able to read and modify messages.

There are also replay attacks and probably many other issues I can't think about. Maybe some IM protocol already deals with that.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#94

Post by Whatitat90 »

kseistrup wrote: post #90
rodolphoarruda wrote: post #66

What is "JID" and how can I get one?

“JID” is short for “Jabber ID” (jabber being the original name for the protocol), and is for XMPP what an email address is for SMTP. JIDs look like email addresses. Unless you want to run your own XMPP server, you can register a JID at one of the public XMPP servers: https://list.jabber.at/

I'd advise checking the server at: https://compliance.conversations.im/old/

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#95

Post by jeroenhd »

inanutshellus wrote: post #68
upbeatlinux wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, OTR worked well for me years ago. Although IIRC Pidgin also stored network credentials in plain-text file. Maybe that has been resolved in the past 10 years?

Pidgin intentionally stores them in plain text. The logic, I believe, is that "light encryption" is worse than no encryption since it gives a false sense of security. So rather than a reversible cypher they leave it plain so that their users will freak out and /not/ share their files with folk and will properly lock down their creds file.

Every recent graphical OS has support for key management though, whether it is the key store on mac, the credential store on Windows or the key management tools that come with KDE or Gnome (I believe both share somewhat of an API).

It might be due to Pidgin's age but in modern programs storing this data in plain text should be a last resort for systems that don't do secret management for you.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#96

Post by ajconway »

mekster wrote: post #81

It's sad that we don't have a very good self hosted chat solution. Last time I checked around, XMPP didn't have a client that I could recommend to business clients that looked easy/simple to use, has no gotchas and looks native. Currently I use Mattermost, which does basic things fine and things are stable but the formatting is just getting in the way making texts unnecessary big and bold when people never intend to…

Matrix seems to be the future now.

The present is, however, Slack.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#97

Post by edhelas »

mekster wrote: post #81

It's sad that we don't have a very good self hosted chat solution. Last time I checked around, XMPP didn't have a client that I could recommend to business clients that looked easy/simple to use, has no gotchas and looks native. Currently I use Mattermost, which does basic things fine and things are stable but the formatting is just getting in the way making texts unnecessary big and bold when people never intend to…

https://movim.eu/ maybe ? :) (doesn't have all the features listed)

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#99

Post by Flowdalic »

aidenn0 wrote: post #86
paulryanrogers wrote: post #73

No mention of Psi? It was the most feature-rich XMPP client I had used. Though the UI felt quirky and less polished than Pidgin.

Psi seems to be abandoned at this point. No carbons support, for example.

It still shows sign of ongoing development though: https://github.com/psi-im/psi/graphs/contributors?from=2016-...

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#100

Post by fisle »

daryltucker wrote: post #38

Dino is slim and has some decent features, but Gajim is the client you want to be using today. Gajim has (although mostly broken) Voice and Video support as well as (working) plugin support and various plugins that you may expect. Dino really fell short for me in my needs for XMPP client, though I'm happy to see federated systems and their clients being promoted. Specifically Dino has issues with OMEMO support with C…

What issues did you have? I used Dino and Conversations for six months or so a year ago, and enjoyed the experience. Our conversations were all OMEMO encrypted.
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