Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native • Hacker News Board

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#491

Post by SiVal » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:15 AM UTC

doctor_eval wrote: post #415

divbzero wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ten years ago Facebook fought this battle and lost. [1] [2] [3] [1]: https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/using-ht... "Using HTML5 Today" [2]: https://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/11/facebook_admits_h... "Facebook admits HTML5 not competitive with Cocoa Touch" [3]: https://techcrunch.com/2012/12/13/facebook-android-faster/ "Facebook Speeds Up Android App By Ditching HTML5 And Rebuilding It Natively…

Ten years ago, Facebook tried with HTML5 -- and 10 years before that Java tried with Swing and then JavaFX. There has always been this push for a "write once, run anywhere" application development platform - long before it was the mantra of Java in the late 90's, or QT a bit later, or React today. The truth is that the platforms change faster than the cross-platform tools. Swing lost out not because it was horrible t…

If cross-platform tools are always behind because the native platforms change more quickly--and I think you're correct about that--then so are native apps that aren't constantly rewritten for the latest OS version. And then so are the native apps running on not-newly-upgraded client devices.

And since these quickly changing native OSes change in different ways, remaining "fully native" requires your app to have different UIs and feature sets, not just on different OSes but on different versions of those OSes.

If you have the resources to keep upgrading separate native apps for all the latest combinations of hardware and OS while also maintaining older versions, with different UIs and feature sets for each, you can have all the benefits of "native". Anything less, and you are deciding to live with less than "full native" and have to decide which compromises to make.

In that case, you might go for maximum speed with a consistent--therefore non-native--UI (PhotoShop), or good-enough speed with non-native UI that runs consistently and on even more platforms (a web app), or give up all but one OS but support all OS versions on all hardware (some dental office Windows app that hasn't changed for 15 years), or whatever. Or some cross-platform toolkit that will never completely keep up with "native" but might be okay, because you can't keep up with native either.

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#492

Post by gorgoiler » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:20 AM UTC

krrrh wrote: post #477

bsaul wrote: post #369

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As a developer of a pro app in a niche market trying to make a living on the app store, i can tell you those 30% are what prevents me from working full time on my app.

There are thousands of desktop app developers that never got out of the hobby stage because they couldn’t get past the costs of processing payments, managing refunds, managing download servers, implementing licensing frameworks, implementing a smooth upgrade process, search engine optimization, establishing enough trust with users that they are confident they aren’t installing malware infected software, marketing, pu…

Part of what makes it so galling is because Apple has those competencies in spades anyway (SREs, designers, datacenters, bizdev.)

Another aspect is that the App Store feels like a value-add for the actual marketed products — iPhones and iPads — and not something you are ever explicitly buying. It doesn’t show up on the receipt. People talk about buying a new iPhone, or getting then latest iPad. No one ever goes to the Apple store to buy the lates access to the App Store.

As such, Apple’s cut feels like it’s everything from cheeky to an abuse of their “monopoly” in the providers of iOS devices marketplace.

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#493

Post by ppeetteerr » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:23 AM UTC

sibeliuss wrote: post #367

Despegar wrote: post #198

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That really just says it all doesn't it? It's basically an admission that the use of cross-platform frameworks is worse for customers/users, but they're going to ignore that to optimize for their own software engineering org.

Build RN app on Android, if it's successful then do a light port to iOS and decommission native team. Seems like a fantastic experiment IMO.

I dig it. Doubt they would decommission the native team tho, since all engineers can do RN. Whether they want to... that's a whole different matter.

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#494

Post by rbrtl » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:28 AM UTC

generalpf wrote: post #404

rbrtl wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on this a little? I understand that Apple only takes 30% the first year and then they drop their commission to 15%. Is the commission on the purchase price of the app what makes it too expensive, or is it too great a cut out of your in app revenue?

That drop on commission is only for app subscriptions that continue longer than a year.

Thanks! I hadn't spotted that...

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#495

Post by jhasse » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:30 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #439

eptcyka wrote: post #428

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There are places in the world where developer labour (especially if the developer is trying to work for himself) is far cheaper than the 900$ capital investment of what essentially is 500-600$ worth of hardware with a shiny aluminum case. Don't forget that not everywhere in the world developers have to choose between several jobs that pay tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

So these same people couldn’t spend $300 on a used 2014 Mac Mini but could buy a PC?

Ypu don't need to buy a PC - you already have one.

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#496

Post by jhasse » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:31 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #424

dessant wrote: post #422

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There are places where people make less than $80/mo, but they still have dreams and awesome ideas, and to deny them the opportunity to start programming and share their work because they can't afford to pay up is apalling.

A quick Google search shows you can buy a perfectly usable 2014 refurbished Mac Mini for $300 and you would still need at least one iPhone to test on. How much would a PC cost that could hypothetically run MscOS in a VM well enough to run XCode? Is it also “appalling” that if I had a great idea for a PS4 game I would have to pay at least $2500 if Sony would even let me buy one? https://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/45538…

> Is it also “appalling” that if I had a great idea for a PS4 game I would have to pay at least $2500 if Sony would even let me buy one?

Yes.

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#497

Post by asutekku » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:32 AM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #449

fendy3002 wrote: post #407

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I'd really hate it if browsers are capable to run in background and accessing microphone or camera. Especially if the tab is closed.

Buy why? People use those apps every day and fine with it. Why browser is bad? You'll still need to give your permission to do so anyway.

People will leave hundreds of tabs open. It’s just not few apps, it’s the whole internet and knowing people they will most likely just smash through the ”deny/allow” warnings.

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#498

Post by bytesmith » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:33 AM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #416

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #260

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Why couldn't they help contribute to/optimize React Native to be faster?

Because the architecture is the primary source of the performance issues. React Native is widely used by the many-billion-dollar company that originated it, so major performance opportunities are not likely to be low-hanging fruit at this point.

There is a major re-architecture of React Native underway[1]. See Lorenzo Sciandra's excellent conference talk for an explanation of what the current limitations are in React Native and how they are planning on addressing them in the near future [2].

[1] https://github.com/react-native-community/discussions-and-pr... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gm0owyO8HU

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#499

Post by rbrtl » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:35 AM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #489

scarface74 wrote: post #465

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If it is a “specialized”,”pro” niche app people are usually willing to spend more. It’s hard to make a living selling a niche app to price sensitive people. Also if it is a niche app, with a small addressable market, how do you continue making money on it since their is no facility for upgrade pricing - especially since you have to keep releasing updates to support newer devices and new screen sizes?

"people are usually willing to spend more" : not in my case ( and probably many other) when i say it is a niche market i mean it not only in terms of number of customers, but also in term of potential generated revenues. there are businesses , especially in artistic fields, where people simply aren't willing to spend a lot of money on accessories, even if they are useful to their job. now i'm not saying i will never…

I think perhaps your business model isn't as solid as you might think. Producing an app is not a free pass to live on the revenue, and the market capture is an important part.

I'm not an app developer, I'm in the music industry (day job in IT infra), but it seems to me there are some people projecting their bad business sense onto Apple. As per my other comment in this thread, and the reply someone made for me, the commission drops on subscription based apps, could you not use a subscription, rather than your pay-per-use system (which sounds like a creative workaround, kudos) and then you'll get the benefit of the tax rolloff.

Trying to make your own way in this world is damn hard work, and if a business model falls apart because one needs to "pay taxes," Apple will not be the biggest problem for very long. I'm sure most here would agree that it stinks that Apple are demanding a 30% tax whilst paying ~0% to the U.S. Government, but that is the way of things for now.

Re: Building all of our new mobile apps using React Native

#500

Post by rbrtl » Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 7:40 AM UTC

marvindanig wrote: post #340

carlosdp wrote: post #193

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In re: distribution challenge, PWAs can already be published to the Google Play store.

Yeah, and those are called TWAs-as in Trusted Web Activities. As much as I dislike Google in general, they have been good at bringing web development and native apps closer than ever.

I think this is only another reason to dislike them. Google created the PWA as a way to encapsulate the market on their terms. As my other comments will belie me, I do not disapprove of this behaviour necessarily -- Apple do it too -- but they have the polar opposite attitude to my privacy and data protection.