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A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

jpkoning.blogspot.com

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Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#11

Post by FDSGSG »

lawn wrote: post #7

This is why Bitcoin's traceability is a problem for it's money status. If people are actively pursuing the stolen bitcoins, regardless of who's currently holding them, then Bitcoin's fungibility will break as some coins will be worth more than others. The only cryptocurrency that comes close to solving this is Monero, which isn't traceable. If the attackers were smart, this is what they would've done: Send them to Bi…

You can write down the serial numbers of paper money you hold, but that's not going to help you recover the money if someone steals the money and spends it at a shop.

Traceability doesn't need to be a problem.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#12

Post by JumpCrisscross »

aphextim wrote: post #8
blakesterz wrote: post #2

I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work? "Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The mom…

The thing is that 96 bitcoin could be thrown through a mixer of sorts. Take the 96 bitcoin, split it into 96 different addresses with 1 bitcoin, then mix those 96 individual addresses to multiple new addresses and then reassemble them elsewhere. This is a horrible explanation, but explains the general idea. You could also mix from Bitcoin to Monero or another currency and back again through various pairs. There are l…

> 96 bitcoin could be thrown through a mixer

One, mixer output could be, by default, added to the registry as laundering proceeds. Or two, the subunits could be traced through the mixer, thus retaining their black marks.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#13

Post by martindevans »

blakesterz wrote: post #2

I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work? "Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The mom…

What stops fraudulent reports?

e.g. 1. I pay you 1 BTC 2. Wait until I receive whatever I paid for 2. Now I tell you to send me 0.5BTC or else I'll report the entire 1BTC as ransom payment.

The blacklist is just a new and very powerful tool for additional fraud!

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#14

Post by michaelt »

aphextim wrote: post #8
blakesterz wrote: post #2

I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work? "Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The mom…

The thing is that 96 bitcoin could be thrown through a mixer of sorts. Take the 96 bitcoin, split it into 96 different addresses with 1 bitcoin, then mix those 96 individual addresses to multiple new addresses and then reassemble them elsewhere. This is a horrible explanation, but explains the general idea. You could also mix from Bitcoin to Monero or another currency and back again through various pairs. There are l…

If we follow the stolen-property example, if a stolen car is broken up and sold as parts, and I buy a widget from it, the fact the car was broken into 96 bits doesn't make the widget any less stolen, no matter how many hands it passes through.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#15

Post by shkkmo »

FDSGSG wrote: post #11
lawn wrote: post #7

This is why Bitcoin's traceability is a problem for it's money status. If people are actively pursuing the stolen bitcoins, regardless of who's currently holding them, then Bitcoin's fungibility will break as some coins will be worth more than others. The only cryptocurrency that comes close to solving this is Monero, which isn't traceable. If the attackers were smart, this is what they would've done: Send them to Bi…

You can write down the serial numbers of paper money you hold, but that's not going to help you recover the money if someone steals the money and spends it at a shop. Traceability doesn't need to be a problem.

Untraceability sidesteps getting courts or lawmakers to give you legal status as money. I don't see why governments have any motivation to extend this protection to cryptocurrencies as it would seem to mainly facilitate crime without providing any benefit in terms of encouraging adoption of government controlled currency.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#16

Post by dylkil »

lawn wrote: post #7

This is why Bitcoin's traceability is a problem for it's money status. If people are actively pursuing the stolen bitcoins, regardless of who's currently holding them, then Bitcoin's fungibility will break as some coins will be worth more than others. The only cryptocurrency that comes close to solving this is Monero, which isn't traceable. If the attackers were smart, this is what they would've done: Send them to Bi…

bitcoin related privacy features are getting much better [1] as are ethereums [2]

[1]https://news.bitcoin.com/how-to-obscure-bitcoin-cash-transac... [2]https://medium.com/@tornado.cash/introducing-private-transac...

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#17

Post by kzrdude »

lawn wrote: post #7

This is why Bitcoin's traceability is a problem for it's money status. If people are actively pursuing the stolen bitcoins, regardless of who's currently holding them, then Bitcoin's fungibility will break as some coins will be worth more than others. The only cryptocurrency that comes close to solving this is Monero, which isn't traceable. If the attackers were smart, this is what they would've done: Send them to Bi…

Why not z-cash?

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#18

Post by mbreese »

spzb wrote: post #5
blakesterz wrote: post #2

I know soooo very little about crypto currency, but his idea here makes sense, at least to me, but what do I know. Is it possible to create a registry like this, or is this never going to work? "Given bitcoin traceability and the ease of getting an injunction, one can imagine that it might make sense for insurers, bitcoin exchanges, and over-the-counter traders to build some sort of private "ransom registry". The mom…

Not a cryptocurrency expert either but I suspect there will always be someone willing to launder the cryptocoins for a large enough commission.

How can you launder something with a traceable serial/transaction number? I don’t think it’s possible. The best you can do is mix it with enough other transactions that it becomes murky as to the final destinations.

Ex: If half of the bitcoins used to buy a car were fraudulent, would you need to return half the car?

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#19

Post by drcross »

kzrdude wrote: post #17
lawn wrote: post #7

This is why Bitcoin's traceability is a problem for it's money status. If people are actively pursuing the stolen bitcoins, regardless of who's currently holding them, then Bitcoin's fungibility will break as some coins will be worth more than others. The only cryptocurrency that comes close to solving this is Monero, which isn't traceable. If the attackers were smart, this is what they would've done: Send them to Bi…

Why not z-cash?

Fundamentally not trustable.

Re: A 96 Bitcoin ransom payment ends up on Bitfinex

#20

Post by shkkmo »

lawn wrote: post #7

This is why Bitcoin's traceability is a problem for it's money status. If people are actively pursuing the stolen bitcoins, regardless of who's currently holding them, then Bitcoin's fungibility will break as some coins will be worth more than others. The only cryptocurrency that comes close to solving this is Monero, which isn't traceable. If the attackers were smart, this is what they would've done: Send them to Bi…

I would assume that Monero isn't being used because Bitcoin tainting hasn't become a significant issue and Monero doesn't provide sufficient liquidity to allow extorting at scale.
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