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Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

blog.mysunland.org

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Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#121
First paragraph:

> Many teachers and parents believe the younger generation know more about technology and “computers” then their own generation. They believe the teens of today know more about computers because we grew up with them, we have always used them and use them for almost every task.

Ok, the entire article basically starts off with a subjective assumption. Great ...

By that logic my parents should know how analog telephones or TVs work, but I already have doubts that they have an idea of how 3.4 kHz sound like or even know what a kHz is. I doubt they ever heard of cathode rays either. So why should nowadays teens know how MIPI DSI works for example? Because they look at a 7" screen driven by that the entire day? The whole idea is just plain bogus.

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#122
I've done a bunch of things at work for "bring your child to work" days etc where we run a class with the kids for an hour or two to make a game using Scratch on raspberry pis.

There is a wide spectrum of ability and interest (and the ages go from perhaps 8 or 9 to mid teens), but a large proportion of the kids get it and are off and happily programming away to make their flappy bird clone based on some basic instructions. Many say they already know Scratch from school. Many get bored and go rogue by ignoring the instructions and doing their own thing with the game and you start to see some bizarre mashups of what they're supposed to be making and what their imagination came up with. When we run those classes, the feedback is usually really really positive.

Sure - scratch is not "programming" as most of us would think of it, but it is programming.

Tl;Dr - give kids a break. There is interest and ability there if you give them the chance to express it.

It is very easy to judge.

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#123
post #52
post #32

Allow me to preface this by saying that I am, in fact, a teen, and absolutely do not represent the majority of teenagers. This post is a generalization and a subjective rant that absolutely doesn't hold up in real life. >>>When you explain what happens under the hood, they will ignore you. When you tell them what a certain setting probably does, they will ignore you. In my experience, although there may be some teena…

I think you are missing where the author is coming from. People knew how to use websites and applications in the early 2000s as well, but with the advent of home computers, WWW and smartphones there was a widespread belief that, by nature of being surrounded by tech, young people would automatically learn how it worked under the surface and possess an inherent fluency in IT. That didn't happen. It's still people inte…

I lament any generation of computer users who grow up without learning the mechanics underlying their hardware and software platform. But to some degree, this is what happens when a technology becomes commoditized.

e.g. Once upon a time automobile ownership involved knowing a thing or two about how to make repairs. Today, I bet a significant number of drivers would get lost trying to change a tire.

Your tech gets straightforward enough to use that humans adopt it as simply another tool to get done something they need. If I didn't know how offensive some of the nuts and bolts under the hood are these days (ads, tracking, the patchwork of ugly bugs and hacks in some of the software and drivers, etc), I'd call it a sign of success of the industry.

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#124
Even if the premise of this article is true...being able to fluently use computers (even if you don’t understand their inner workings) is already better than what their parents achieve.

No one was complaining that mom and dad don’t know what defragmentation is, and why it doesn’t matter on an SSD. No one was sad grandma had no clue why changing the DHCP setting on her router made no difference when she was outside the house.

The issue was your mom calling for the 20th time asking how to rip a cd in iTunes, or dad not being able to attach a photo to an e-mail.

That issue seems more than solved by the current generation.

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#125

I've done a bunch of things at work for "bring your child to work" days etc where we run a class with the kids for an hour or two to make a game using Scratch on raspberry pis. There is a wide spectrum of ability and interest (and the ages go from perhaps 8 or 9 to mid teens), but a large proportion of the kids get it and are off and happily programming away to make their flappy bird clone based on some basic instruc…

Sound very supportive!

Let me add: The parents that brought their kids to these occasions may have a technically background also? Then these parents know how to use a computer and may have passed this knowledge on, at least the positive attitude towards knowing how it works. Children are interested in what their parents do after all. Children are trained in consuming computers/content on computers, so some (maybe even the majority of what I observed) may have a negative attitude towards learning what computers actually do. After all, consuming rewards them with joy, learning is meh...

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#126

When I was a teen, I couldn't have explained (in any detail) how a car engine worked either. Five years later, I'd quickly learned in order to keep my own running. Those who need to, and have the time, will figure it out. If they are clueless, that's good. There are much more important things a teen needs to learn.

That's so true. The question is if kids learn the tools to understand what computers do when needing self-study later.

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#127
The article and many of the responses here to it sadly reflect the casual agist narrative that was long present but especially in the last few years has become more prevalent. It is not a productive model to reason from unless division is your goal.

You will find computer literate in each generation, just as you will find the majority in each case completely oblivious to and uninterested in acquiring the knowledge to understand and troubleshoot non trivial issues.

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#128
post #32

Allow me to preface this by saying that I am, in fact, a teen, and absolutely do not represent the majority of teenagers. This post is a generalization and a subjective rant that absolutely doesn't hold up in real life. >>>When you explain what happens under the hood, they will ignore you. When you tell them what a certain setting probably does, they will ignore you. In my experience, although there may be some teena…

I believe the original article is bad, but not simply for the reasons you state.

It's rather part of a tired genre of "kids these days" articles where modern technology has somehow poisoned them beyond comprehension. In fact, kids tend to do things in a pragmatic and rational way, and it is on the author to appreciate what they are and are not savvy about.

The typical pattern around new technology in my own life(30's Millenial) is that even within the generation you get people who develop a specialty, and their counterparts who learn to be good at asking for assistance. And intergenerationally the pattern magnifies as you get more and more dependencies on the group of true experts, and there's often a gap in the training of the next group - "no careers in this".

People perhaps 30 years older than me - the Boomers - would have come of age in the mid 70's, right as semiconductor ICs really started making waves. The probable focus of their attention with respect to technology would not necessarily be "computing" but "electronics," since so many consumer electronics suddenly became possible. But as consumers they would want service and support, and so the nature of the sales around this stuff was to promise that they could use the device in a very basic way and have someone take care of them if it broke.

The Gen X and cusp Millenial crowd, on the other hand, grew up with the devices ambiently around them and little marketing dialogue(what dialogue they had would be diverted towards toys and games consoles). Their incentive was to figure out enough to fix some yard sale or dumpster find; and modern notions of computer hacking derive from that romanticization. But the reality for many folks in these generations is that they can only be self-reliant in so many ways. It takes unusual persistence to reverse engineer your computer starting from nothing or only the most basic kind of information, and yet that is often the kind of story heard from people who "got into computers" around this tine.

As you get to the more Internet-connected era, it gets a lot easier to get directed to some kind of help or guidance, and that made for a substantial generational shift, although a lot of my memories of programmers on the early Internet is of the most arrogant, ego-centic types anxiously blasting anyone who dared challenge them. The word "toxic" had no parlance yet.

I believe the main challenge that is faced by the younger crowd now is what happens once the brightly paved road to knowledge drops off - there are lots of "friendly" 10-minute video tutorials for everything, but often the conceptual depth is missing, and so you have a cycle of learning and relearning with more rigor, while it would be more common in the past to jump from self-experiment straight to academia, simply because all the knowledge really was centralized there.

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#129
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are missing where the author is coming from. People knew how to use websites and applications in the early 2000s as well, but with the advent of home computers, WWW and smartphones there was a widespread belief that, by nature of being surrounded by tech, young people would automatically learn how it worked under the surface and possess an inherent fluency in IT. That didn't happen. It's still people inte…

> there was a widespread belief that, by nature of being surrounded by tech, young people would automatically learn how it worked under the surface and possess an inherent fluency in IT. Over the course of the last 25 years, I've never heard that expectation anywhere. There was always a mentality that computers would keep getting easier to use, which is completely true. There was always the idea that kids would integ…

I'd say kids born in the late 90s missed that discussion by a bit. When you hit the teenage years we were already smartphone era which pretty much was the end of it.

Re: Teens don't have a clue about IT? (2016)

#130
post #86

I have three boys, two are engineers and one is a gamer. Guess who fixes their computer when things go awry? That's right, it's me, their 65 year old father that learned to code assembly back in 1976 on a Dec PDP. I tried to teach them something more than just the superficial shell visible to users, but they just weren't interested in learning what was inside.

I am missing out on learning from my dad (who wants to teach me about the foreign exchange). Instead, I'm going down my own route. Otherwise, I'd have to sit on his bed and watch him explain things to me in an unstructured manner. So, I recommend getting a proper desk to co-op on and a learning plan if you don't have those setup already. Also, I had a neighbor with lots of knowledge in electrical and software enginee…

> Also, I had a neighbor with lots of knowledge in electrical and software engineering... Shame that he was drinking a lot.

These things aren’t necessarily unrelated.

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