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Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

wadhwa.com

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Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#61
post #4

One commonality between many successful dropouts like Zuckerberg and Gates is that they dropped out to do something specific, not because they were too lazy or undisciplined to finish. Had the right opportunity not come along, I suspect many celebrity dropouts would have cruised to graduation.

I'd also argue even including Gates in a list of typical college dropouts. He was taking graduate level computer science and mathematics classes his first and second year in college. Anyone who can take handle graduate level technical classes has shown a decent grasp of the undergraduate material.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#62
post #42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those that can do, those that can't, teach, and those that can't teach get tenure. This is an extremely ignorant and insulting statement. Further, you have just asserted that the worlds best minds, and many of histories great figures, are all incapable fools. I hope you realize how this statement makes you look.

I would posit that "worlds best minds, and many of histories great figures" are revered for what they did and not what they taught, nor their positions of tenure. Did Einstein have tenure or a teaching position when he discovered relativity? Point out to me those revered figures of history known primarily for their teaching or tenure positions. The worthlessness of the university system is exemplified by people like…

You do realize that you cannot get tenure without publishing many, many, relevant pieces of work, right? You also realize that to teach something you need to really understand it, correct? On the other hand, you can certainly apply knowledge without understanding it.

Your statement is insulting to anyone who values knowledge, teaching it, and pursuing it. Perhaps you are not a native english speaker, but your statement is very easy to read as implying that only those who cannot do [what? research? engineering?] teach, and only those who are lousy teachers get tenure.

It is an indefensible position and your obvious hostility towards modern academia is unjustified. For one academics don't necessarily want to teach. But as a society we deemed that we will in essence force them to. Why? We need good teachers and goodness knows industry won't waste money on it, let alone have any sort of quality control. So we force these people who have devoted their lives to research to also teach.

As for tenure, it is often attacked as something protecting poor researchers. I think this notion is very much overblown. In modern times you cannot even get tenure before you are 35 or 40. If you look at those with tenure, the majority continue to do good work for the remainder of their careers. That aside, the main purpose of tenure is actually to protect the pursuit of knowledge. It exists to prevent management from dictating what people may research. It is to allow researchers to pursue risky or unpopular approaches.

Academics do what they do because they primarily enjoy research. Insinuating that they are incapable of doing this simply because they also teach and are granted the protection of tenure is very insulting.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#63
"To build a business, you need to understand subjects like finance, marketing, intellectual property and corporate law. "

And you can only learn these topics in university.

"Most importantly, if students don’t learn the importance of finishing what they start, they will never achieve success—this requires perseverance and determination."

And you can only learn perseverance at university.

"And by dropping out of college, they won’t have the alumni networks that they need to help them later in their careers and in business."

And you can only make friends at university.

To me, the only real reason to stay in university until I graduate (aside from inertia) is the belief that being a dropout instead of a graduate will hurt my future career. (I speak as one who's been tempted to drop out a few times)

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#64
For what it's worth, I dropped out of college, ended up starting a company, and had a decent exit (fortunately). But I'm using the freedom that gave me to go back to school.

I was able to manage before by teaching myself out of books, but there's something to be said for learning with expert guidance and a community of peers.

I am also gaining exposure to a variety of fields which lend themselves less well to self-instruction than programming does (for example, molecular biology) and in which I believe a lot of the action for the next fifty years will be happening.

So, yeah, unless you already have a product that has traction and that demands your fulltime attention to continue growing, there's no reason to drop out of school.

My advice to students is: imagine that you were forced to drop out of college against your will, and then were given a chance to go back five years later after slogging it out in the real world. Would your attitude be different than it is now? Would you perhaps go to more office hours, skip less class, explore more subjects, play less Xbox, join more clubs?

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#65
post #60
post #13

Wasn't Zuckerberg given this same advice, that he wasn't the guy who founded Friendster, and should just stay in school? Should a business fail can't you just go back to school? How many great business opportunities does one get in life? I'm betting it's far less than the opportunities to blow two hundred grand on a piece of paper. If professors knew what business ideas would succeed and which would fail then they'd…

If professors knew what business ideas would succeed and which would fail then they'd be investing instead of teaching. It's not ideas that succeed or fail, but founders.

If that is your position (pick founders, not ideas), does this preclude you from picking a future google/microsoft/ etc. except by chance?

I am assuming that the really big hits are a consequence of the right idea, right time, and right people.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you half-credit for Apple. Jobs was out of school, but Woz was still at UCB and withdrew after they had already begun selling (but before the company was officially formed). And I think half credit for Twitter. I don't know much about Twitter, but it appears Dorsey was still in college when they started Twitter. But in any case two pretty good examples.

If you count Woz as "still at UCB" because he was on a leave of absence, then you have to count Gates as "still at Harvard" and Page & Brin as "still at Stanford" even today. Officially, they never actually dropped out of their universities - they just remain on perpetual leave of absence, and could go back next semester if they wanted to. Woz was at HP because he didn't have money for the next semester of Berkeley,…

OK, you get 1.75 points. :-)

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#67
post #65
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If professors knew what business ideas would succeed and which would fail then they'd be investing instead of teaching. It's not ideas that succeed or fail, but founders.

If that is your position (pick founders, not ideas), does this preclude you from picking a future google/microsoft/ etc. except by chance? I am assuming that the really big hits are a consequence of the right idea, right time, and right people.

No. The right people (eventually) find the right idea for the time.

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#68
post #67
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is your position (pick founders, not ideas), does this preclude you from picking a future google/microsoft/ etc. except by chance? I am assuming that the really big hits are a consequence of the right idea, right time, and right people.

No. The right people (eventually) find the right idea for the time.

How could this statement be anything other than a tautology?

Re: Students: You Are Probably Not Mark Zuckerberg, So Stay In School

#69
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The right people (eventually) find the right idea for the time.

How could this statement be anything other than a tautology?

Because it's also claiming that such people exist.

I'm not saying P(x) ≡ Q(x), but ∃x P(x) ∧ Q(x).

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