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An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

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Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#261

Post by RobertRoberts »

ramblerman wrote: post #253
RobertRoberts wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something you didn't address, unwarranted critisim or just plain mean comments can just hurt or drain you emotionally. It can rob you of desire to work or entirely demotivate you from your original goal. While you may argue "deal with it", and rightly so in most circumstances, but then you are only addressing an issue of grit. I have plenty of grit in _some_ areas of my life, but not _all_ areas of my life. And, some…

You might reflect on the fact that perhaps "you" are the one concerned about if it is appealing or not. My reaction was, huh cool. I didn't even stop to think about the aesthetics. You were the one to introduce that into this thread.

Yes, and I wanted an answer from the guy who made stuff with masking tape and string (and seemed to get good feedback) and wanted to know how he took negative feedback from his prototypes.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#262

Post by magduf »

faizshah wrote: post #219
thrower123 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your developers skew towards those in their 20s, many of them have never experienced working in solitude. University culture is dominated by study groups and camping out in the library, so it's no great stretch to go from that to an open-office layout, or even one where you are forced to hot-desk. And laptops have been the norm. It's a little different when you were accustomed to go back to your dorm room where yo…

This theory doesn't pass the smell test. Virtually every university library has quiet areas and collaborative areas now. Most of my peers go to the library to concentrate (work in solitude) and visit the loud area of the library when they want to be more social or meet in groups. Also it's not like people are constantly talking in the loud area either, most people are by themselves focusing on work but will be interr…

It sounds to me like universities should just stop wasting space in the library on study areas, and downsize the library a lot so it only has rooms for books and nothing else.

Then, they should separately have buildings (or separate spaces within that building maybe, for existing structures) that are dedicated entirely to studying, with both quiet areas with cubicles (there were things like this at the library when I went to college), and more open areas where talking is acceptable. Then, the university can put a cafe there to sell overpriced coffee drinks and snacks, and the building should be very profitable.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#263

Post by RobertRoberts »

incompatible wrote: post #221
RobertRoberts wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something you didn't address, unwarranted critisim or just plain mean comments can just hurt or drain you emotionally. It can rob you of desire to work or entirely demotivate you from your original goal. While you may argue "deal with it", and rightly so in most circumstances, but then you are only addressing an issue of grit. I have plenty of grit in _some_ areas of my life, but not _all_ areas of my life. And, some…

Criticism doesn't bother me. It will generally come into three categories: 1. Insults and trolling with no valid content: this tells me nothing I didn't know already, that there are morons in the world 2. Valid criticisms, but things that I already know about and either can't do anything about or where I decided it wasn't worth the effort: again nothing I didn't already know 3. Valid criticisms that I hadn't thought…

"That sucks" is valid criticism for many people, as well as "who would want that?" and "why did you waste your time?".

Your categories are all logical responses, what about the immediate emotional effects of the responses?

If you have never experienced an immediate emotional response from criticism I count you extremely lucky that you don't have to face it. But for those of us that do, we are looking for answer to the emotional side of things.

Is there some technique you have used to blunt the emotions and look at them only logically?

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#264

Post by TurkTurkleton »

owenmarshall wrote: post #258
chrisseaton wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you have a million in funding, then who does it matter to if you spend it on infrastructure or operational expenses? You're still burning the same amount of cash.

Salary and benefits aren’t treated exactly the same as capital expenditures. That’s how your purchase of a ten thousand dollar piece of electronics becomes a thousand dollar charge every ten years, no matter when the check clears. Which looks better on your companies balance sheet? Have you ever tracked your time as a salaried software developer? I used to, and used to think it was a stupid exercise. Then I learned t…

I am a salaried software developer, and my employer requires me to track my time, for precisely the reason you describe. And I still think it's stupid, despite having heard this very explanation at least twice (or thrice, if you count your comment). It doesn't make it make any more sense; it just makes corporate accounting sound like so much smoke and mirrors that accountants and investors willfully participate in. Maybe I'm focusing too much on the fact that those dollars are coming out of their bank account into mine every two weeks like clockwork regardless of the fact that they're pretending that they're trickling two years' worth of salary out to me slowly over a period of seven years or whatever, but it just seems so arbitrary and nonsensical to pretend that they're not spending that money to pay me right now.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#266

Post by matz1 »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #263
incompatible wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticism doesn't bother me. It will generally come into three categories: 1. Insults and trolling with no valid content: this tells me nothing I didn't know already, that there are morons in the world 2. Valid criticisms, but things that I already know about and either can't do anything about or where I decided it wasn't worth the effort: again nothing I didn't already know 3. Valid criticisms that I hadn't thought…

"That sucks" is valid criticism for many people, as well as "who would want that?" and "why did you waste your time?". Your categories are all logical responses, what about the immediate emotional effects of the responses? If you have never experienced an immediate emotional response from criticism I count you extremely lucky that you don't have to face it. But for those of us that do, we are looking for answer to th…

>what about the immediate emotional effects of the responses?

Our brain/body is good at adapting so you simply ignore it or rather embrace the pain, yes it will be painful in the beginning but the more you are exposed to it the better it will be over time.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#267

Post by marvin »

oblio wrote: post #178
johnyzee wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google just lost a top percentile developer over their open floor plan. Literally irreplaceable. But they saved a few dollars on space. That is being penny wise and pound foolish, particularly for a company like Google who is not capital constrained. (He may not have quit directly because of the open office plan, but given that it's one of the few complaints he makes, it obviously is a factor.)

The thing is, it doesn't matter. To make a parallel with Microsoft in the early 00's and IBM before that: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... > Although there is some truth to the fact that Linux is a huge threat to Microsoft, predictions of the Redmond company’s demise are, to say the least, premature. Microsoft has an incredible amount of cash money in the bank and is still incredibly pr…

Well, it's still a mistake, even if it's a survivable and, for some, a relatively inconsequential mistake.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#268

Post by wedowhatwedo »

magduf wrote: post #262
faizshah wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This theory doesn't pass the smell test. Virtually every university library has quiet areas and collaborative areas now. Most of my peers go to the library to concentrate (work in solitude) and visit the loud area of the library when they want to be more social or meet in groups. Also it's not like people are constantly talking in the loud area either, most people are by themselves focusing on work but will be interr…

It sounds to me like universities should just stop wasting space in the library on study areas, and downsize the library a lot so it only has rooms for books and nothing else. Then, they should separately have buildings (or separate spaces within that building maybe, for existing structures) that are dedicated entirely to studying, with both quiet areas with cubicles (there were things like this at the library when I…

Why does it matter if it is a single building or multiple buildings? My university has a library that has book space, quiet study areas, group study areas and multiple overpriced food/drink vendors.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#269

Post by RobertRoberts »

matz1 wrote: post #266
RobertRoberts wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That sucks" is valid criticism for many people, as well as "who would want that?" and "why did you waste your time?". Your categories are all logical responses, what about the immediate emotional effects of the responses? If you have never experienced an immediate emotional response from criticism I count you extremely lucky that you don't have to face it. But for those of us that do, we are looking for answer to th…

>what about the immediate emotional effects of the responses? Our brain/body is good at adapting so you simply ignore it or rather embrace the pain, yes it will be painful in the beginning but the more you are exposed to it the better it will be over time.

I suspected someone may say something like this. Is jumping in the deep end the only real answer to issues of fear or emotional turmoil? (ie, get back on the horse...)

I don't disagree with you, I was just hoping there may be something else to consider.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#270

Post by magduf »

wedowhatwedo wrote: post #268
magduf wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds to me like universities should just stop wasting space in the library on study areas, and downsize the library a lot so it only has rooms for books and nothing else. Then, they should separately have buildings (or separate spaces within that building maybe, for existing structures) that are dedicated entirely to studying, with both quiet areas with cubicles (there were things like this at the library when I…

Why does it matter if it is a single building or multiple buildings? My university has a library that has book space, quiet study areas, group study areas and multiple overpriced food/drink vendors.

It doesn't really matter that much, and it really doesn't matter at all if it's different wings of the same building. But separating these things for future construction might make some sense: for instance, you could put the study building in a really convenient part of campus, and stick the library off the side in a less-convenient location, since people don't use that as much.

I'm also thinking that you might not want lots of food and drink around the stacks of books. But in an open study area, why not?

Finally, if I go to the library to look at stacks of books, the last thing I want is for the bookcases to be surrounded by a somewhat noisy study area with groups of people talking. It should be as quiet as a tomb.

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