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How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

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Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#281

Post by yardie »

mumblemumble wrote: post #40
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #20

I'm planning to live a car free life soon. I'll be moving in to the city so almost everything is within walking distance and just about everything is accessable via public transport. The only thing I haven't been able work out is how I will continue to go mtn biking since bikes aren't allowed on the bus. But I just can't justify the massive expense of owning a car and a car park for one activity.

Mountain biking is one of the things I gave up when I moved to the city. I thought that maybe I'd occasionally rent a car and drive out to a state park, but what I quickly discovered was that, once driving stopped being a part of my daily life, the idea of regularly driving out to a forest preserve lost its palatability. Largely because I am no longer inured to driving, so any plan for how to spend my leisure time th…

> I figured out that renting a car 4-5 days a month was still cheaper than owning an inexpensive car.

This is what I tell people now when they ask how I get around without a car. Renting 1-2x/month for a road trip is still cheaper than parking, insurance and maintenance even on a fully owned car

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#282

Post by cortesoft »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #251
wwweston wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefits of zipper merge don't materialize fully unless merging lanes match speed approaching the merge point. The parent is likely talking about situations like those presented where a relatively less dense (and ending) lane is merging into a fully-loaded thru-lane, and the traffic in the relatively less dense lane, rather than matching speed and finding the tooth-gap correspondence that's implied in the name zi…

In times of congestion, the conditions rarely exists for very long which would allow both lanes to match speed before the merge point. The simplest rule is to use as much road as possible. It’s less than ideal 10% of the time, but 90% of the time it’s the inevitable result of too many cars.

They match speed here... that speed is stopped.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#283

Post by lotsofpulp »

cortesoft wrote: post #282
lotsofpulp wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In times of congestion, the conditions rarely exists for very long which would allow both lanes to match speed before the merge point. The simplest rule is to use as much road as possible. It’s less than ideal 10% of the time, but 90% of the time it’s the inevitable result of too many cars.

They match speed here... that speed is stopped.

Yes, stopping is pretty much inevitable after a certain density of cars has been reached. In an ideal situation, where all cars have the same acceleration and deceleration, drivers are aware and allow zipper merging and don't tailgate, it would happen more smoothly.

But that isn't the world we live in, so at the end of the day, the simplest rule is to use as much lane as possible and take turns merging.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#284

Post by timw4mail »

leetcrew wrote: post #272
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone talks tough on the internet but when it comes down to it basically everyone will avoid an accident because regardless of who's fault it would be it's still a massive pain in the ass and the proliferation of dash-cams has much reduced the opportunities to be a dick and make the other guy pay.

if you hit the back of someone's car, you're almost certainly paying regardless. you would have to prove they were intentionally brake checking you or something like that.

Unless they actually drive away...which I have had happen.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#285

Post by timw4mail »

ryanar wrote: post #277
tomrod wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in the midwest and the south, frost heave has a _major_ impact! Seems like the cycle is 12 years or so on road repavement, but that's anecdotal. Also note there are a _lot_ of grading options available, some as simple as gravel and tar.

Around where I live they call it stone and oil, and if it is the same thing as gravel and tar, that is the absolute worst way to regrade a road for the consumer. The sound of oil and stones smacking against your car when you unwittingly turned down a road that was recently stone and oiled is awful.

Chip-sealing is what I've heard it called

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#286

Post by FPGAhacker »

beerandt wrote: post #252
wwweston wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefits of zipper merge don't materialize fully unless merging lanes match speed approaching the merge point. The parent is likely talking about situations like those presented where a relatively less dense (and ending) lane is merging into a fully-loaded thru-lane, and the traffic in the relatively less dense lane, rather than matching speed and finding the tooth-gap correspondence that's implied in the name zi…

At the risk of sounding cold hearted: I get that it doesn't seem fair, but logically, it's the right call to drive to the end of the lane. 1) It keeps the rules simple. If we should merge at some arbitrary point before the lane is up, it will always be arbitrary, and different drivers will have different opinions. 2) By getting to the end and slowing down, the driver now has matched the speed of traffic. It's a self…

>Theoretically, where the car merges doesn't have any bearing on this occurring or not. It shouldn't be any different at the beginning of the lane or the end.

It’s a scheduling problem where people that join the lane early are starved by the people joining late.

In cases where there is roughly an equal exchange of vehicles between two lanes it doesn’t matter much, and maybe that’s the norm where you are.

Where I am, congestion is more localized to chokepoints where too many people need to use an exit or on ramp. In this case if time matters it’s usually better to be aggressive and merge at the last minute rather than be passive and get in line early.

People may think you are a jerk. For people where it’s important not to be thought of badly, they get in line first. For people who don’t care (or occasionally for other reasons) they skip the line and merge late.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#287

Post by samstave »

slavik81 wrote: post #233
samstave wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many aspects about driving in the US are so terrible. The road conditions are pretty bad, and what i would like to understand are the gas taxes and other taxes which ostensibly go into road infra. We have high gas taxes and drive more miles than most countries on the planet - where is that money going? Some countries have high vehicle costs and their roads to me seem pristine and perfect by comparison. Specificall…

> We have high gas taxes and drive more miles than most countries on the planet - where is that money going? A. You don't have high gas taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#/media/File%3AFuel_ta... B. You build a lot of roads.

Nope.

California comes in second on the list of states with the highest gas tax at 72.76 cents per gallon. Rising fuel prices and increased taxation are the primary reasons for this.

A law that was passed in 2017 allowed the state of California to increase the gas tax by a steep 12 cents, because it seemed like the most viable way to obtain the funds needed to replace several bridges and fund other important road projects.

You can expect the state’s gas tax to increase further by 7.5 cents per gallon in a few months.

We consume 10% of the US’ gas consumption i. California.

We consume more than 40 million gallons per day. There are opaque additonal taxes on each gallon sold at the nearly 9,000 gas stations and billions in taxes are also missing.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/s...

And not all taxes are hitting our roads...

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#288

Post by bildung »

samstave wrote: post #287
slavik81 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have high gas taxes and drive more miles than most countries on the planet - where is that money going? A. You don't have high gas taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#/media/File%3AFuel_ta... B. You build a lot of roads.

Nope. California comes in second on the list of states with the highest gas tax at 72.76 cents per gallon. Rising fuel prices and increased taxation are the primary reasons for this. A law that was passed in 2017 allowed the state of California to increase the gas tax by a steep 12 cents, because it seemed like the most viable way to obtain the funds needed to replace several bridges and fund other important road pro…

That is a very low gas tax. In Germany it's €2.47 per gallon/ €0.65 per liter.

Edit: Your numbers for california amount to about $10.6B per year - and the transportation budget for california for the current fiscal year is $23.5 billion [0]. So the tax pays for less than half of the costs.

[0] = https://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3948#Overview_of_Gove...

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#289

Post by jhloa2 »

jdsully wrote: post #134
jhloa2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freeze/thaw cycles seem to absolutely destroy the few segments of concrete roads we have around here. They don't seem to last more than 2 winters.

Many freeways around Toronto use concrete and according to the MTO it is cheaper. But the deciding factor appears to be the number of trucks passing the stretch of road. Concretes durability under weight more than offsets the decay from weather.

That's where I notice them as well. I haven't seen it recently, but I recall a few years ago there was a highway around here (Denver) that was asphalt for the two leftmost lanes with a concrete slow lane that semi trucks were supposed to drive on.

Maybe Denver is particularly bad for concrete roads because our freeze/thaw cycles get really bad. We have so many warm days in the winter interspersed with cold days and freezing nights.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#290

Post by MiracleUser »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #71
MiracleUser wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(ime) Trains only get you to your destination faster if your destination is a train station

In a high density area like a city its basically always faster. Also faster if you are going long distances and can benefit from the 200km/h+ speeds. Probably doesn't work in some urban sprawl American suburb but for more sensible layouts its the best option. Also the best for the environment.

>Probably doesn't work in some urban sprawl American suburb

yep, hi. It's also the same kind of area where road maintenance is the highest problem. Lot's of road wear and tear, and not enough funding to maintain properly

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