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How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

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Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#251

Post by lotsofpulp »

wwweston wrote: post #230
romwell wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is _always_ one person go tries to skip the line and merge at the very end, Ahem... he's the one that actually knows what a zipper merge is, and you are the one who needs to learn a thing today. There is no line in the zipper merge. You are supposed to merge at the very end to keep the traffic flowing, like a zipper would. Read up, and don't be that guy: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge…

The benefits of zipper merge don't materialize fully unless merging lanes match speed approaching the merge point. The parent is likely talking about situations like those presented where a relatively less dense (and ending) lane is merging into a fully-loaded thru-lane, and the traffic in the relatively less dense lane, rather than matching speed and finding the tooth-gap correspondence that's implied in the name zi…

In times of congestion, the conditions rarely exists for very long which would allow both lanes to match speed before the merge point. The simplest rule is to use as much road as possible. It’s less than ideal 10% of the time, but 90% of the time it’s the inevitable result of too many cars.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#252

Post by beerandt »

wwweston wrote: post #230
romwell wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is _always_ one person go tries to skip the line and merge at the very end, Ahem... he's the one that actually knows what a zipper merge is, and you are the one who needs to learn a thing today. There is no line in the zipper merge. You are supposed to merge at the very end to keep the traffic flowing, like a zipper would. Read up, and don't be that guy: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge…

The benefits of zipper merge don't materialize fully unless merging lanes match speed approaching the merge point. The parent is likely talking about situations like those presented where a relatively less dense (and ending) lane is merging into a fully-loaded thru-lane, and the traffic in the relatively less dense lane, rather than matching speed and finding the tooth-gap correspondence that's implied in the name zi…

At the risk of sounding cold hearted: I get that it doesn't seem fair, but logically, it's the right call to drive to the end of the lane.

1) It keeps the rules simple. If we should merge at some arbitrary point before the lane is up, it will always be arbitrary, and different drivers will have different opinions.

2) By getting to the end and slowing down, the driver now has matched the speed of traffic. It's a self correcting problem.

3) Not going to the end of the lane is wasting capacity. If it's 4 lanes reducing to 3, how far back is it fair to expect that ending lane to go unused?

4) For on ramps, it gives more cars the chance to merge at once, which will either help the flow of traffic, or quickly reach equilibrium with the through lane.

5) And finally, if everyone always used the full lane, it wouldn't give "cheaters" the opportunity to pass everyone else and cheat.

>causing the traffic column in the thru-lane to brake dramatically

Theoretically, where the car merges doesn't have any bearing on this occurring or not. It shouldn't be any different at the beginning of the lane or the end. If traffic isn't moving, there's no breaking to be had. If it is, it should only give better opportunity to match speed and merge without disruption. Practically, the problem has as much to do with the aggression of the through lane drivers as it does the merging one.

They certainly have the right of way. I'm just saying that where the merging driver comes over doesn't really change any of that, unless the through traffic is behaving differently in response.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#253

Post by wastedhours »

bartread wrote: post #206
habosa wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently drove around Spain for 2 weeks. My first significant international driving experience. I was shocked at how seriously they took the rule of only passing on the left. Every single car in the right line was driving slower than every single car in the left. It made driving so much better. The behavior of every car was basically predictable. I've never seen anyone pay much attention to their lane here.

I'm not sure what it's like in Spain but, in France, if you hog the outside lane you will get flashed and beeped at. French drivers do not tolerate lane hogs at all and generally manifest excellent lane discipline: I wish the UK were more like that.

I've started driving again after a couple of years off, and it still astounds me that people lane hog the middle lane.

I don't know if it's laziness, ego, or fear of motorways but it should be taught as a rule. I usually make it a point to overtake and then, if possible, go straight back across to the left lane. Highly doubt the hogger is paying any attention, but I feel more content feeling like I've taught something...

Still amazing still motorway driving isn't taught or tested at all (I think? Been quite a while since I got my license).

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, there's a lot less hogging in 2 lane scenarios, which I why I try and find A roads now rather than motorways.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#254

Post by beerandt »

glangdale wrote: post #22

This is interesting information, but from the perspective of a high-value urban area, even these fairly eye-watering numbers are a understatement. The capital represented both as infrastructure and forgone real estate usage (i.e. yes, we need roads, but building more roads than we need diverts incredibly valuable real estate from other purposes) is huge. I'm always amused here in Australia when governments like to ma…

I'm not sure what you're gunning for here. Spending road money on other projects? Or that real estate used for roads is somehow removed from the overall real estate market (in the active commerce sense, not active listing sense)?

If it's a new project, even if land is behind expropriated, the market value is being paid. (I assume, bring Australia) So it does balance out, even in land value. For appreciated value, it doesn't occur in a vacuum. The local transportation is factored in to the market rates for property.

So I'm not sure in what sense you don't see it as balanced out. Or what you'd like to see as the alternative.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#255

Post by imtringued »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #248
slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

* One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity.* Adding new capacity to shorten journey times is a fools errand. The new capacity soon fills up as longer and more commutes become acceptable.

Yes the motivation is completely wrong here. You build more lanes to increase throughput not to decrease latency!

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#256

Post by dsfyu404ed »

adrianN wrote: post #246
varshithr wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no concept of lanes in India. Vehicle volume and variety are so huge that it kind of makes sense to have all the vehicles move tightly packed. Comparatively, it's pretty chaotic here.

And a lot more people die per mile.

A lot of those fatalities are from minor mishaps on mopeds combined with hard surfaces and a lack of helmets.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#257

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #232
hinkley wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I recall as a young man when the guy in the shiny SUV would try to cut you off because they had a bigger vehicle. I felt like I could tell the moment when they realized that the repairs on their car would be more expensive than my entire car, and slink back into their lane.

There is no freedom like being a sketchy looking guy driving an old van.

That works until you need to drive somewhere after 10pm or before 5am which will result in you getting bothered by damn near every cop you pass.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#258

Post by dsfyu404ed »

hinkley wrote: post #228
pentae wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't let it bother you too much.. For every prick like that theres another prick like myself who is willing to smash up their front bumper with the rear of my vehicle to make a point. Interestingly, they always cede your right of way when you don't hesitate.

Ah, I recall as a young man when the guy in the shiny SUV would try to cut you off because they had a bigger vehicle. I felt like I could tell the moment when they realized that the repairs on their car would be more expensive than my entire car, and slink back into their lane.

Everyone talks tough on the internet but when it comes down to it basically everyone will avoid an accident because regardless of who's fault it would be it's still a massive pain in the ass and the proliferation of dash-cams has much reduced the opportunities to be a dick and make the other guy pay.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#259

Post by dsfyu404ed »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #248
slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

* One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity.* Adding new capacity to shorten journey times is a fools errand. The new capacity soon fills up as longer and more commutes become acceptable.

Adding more capacity means more trips can happen at the same cost (time being the one we're discussing here) which is of benefit to society.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#260

Post by imtringued »

beerandt wrote: post #146
slowhand09 wrote: post #57

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4…

To get people to respect the passing lane, I propose: Left-most lane on controlled access highways should be rear car, by default, has the right-of-way.

When I see someone behind me I will switch to the right but sometimes I am too slow (=they are significantly above the speed limit) and the speeding idiots try to pass me on the right side even if it is illegal. When someone is going 200km/h on a 130km/h road you don't want to block their path by suddenly switching at the last moment.

This type of regressive behavior is disgusting. When someone tries to pass I now have to be extra careful about switching lanes because they may pass me on the right. This leads to even slower switching which fuels even more passing on the right.

Just follow the damn rules.

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