31–40 of 83 posts
I was taught as a child in Australia that the Indigenous Australians were the world’s oldest living/surviving civilization.
Yes Australian education leaves a lot to be desired.
> Even a poor Chinese with no education is likely to have the instincts and bearing of an educated man. He sets great store by such things as personal dignity, self-respect, and respect for others. I get the impression that Taiwanese and Hong Kong people might not agree with this point to describe the mainlanders.
The article was written before communism. I've heard from different accounts that communism has had a deleterious effect on people's manner. I don't know if this is true or not, but it's a reasonable explanation.
Does it make sense to talk about the Chinese civilization like a single continuous civilization? That's a bit like saying Italy's civilization dates from the first Etruscan settlements or that French civilization is as old as the megaliths in Brittany. I am a bit suspicious of these claims as they are central to Chinese nationalism. In order to hold them you have to disregard the several periods where the country was…
The examples I heard were that Ancient Chinese poetry is still understandable and taught to Chinese school-children, that Chinese cuisine in most areas has not changed dramatically, and that many Chinese religious traditions are practiced very similarly. Even the Mongol invasion of China has apparently had more of an effect of making the Mongols adopt Chinese customs than the other way around.
Please note that I may well have fallen for state propaganda on any or all of the above. I am not claiming to know any of these from direct scholarship.
Does it make sense to talk about the Chinese civilization like a single continuous civilization? That's a bit like saying Italy's civilization dates from the first Etruscan settlements or that French civilization is as old as the megaliths in Brittany. I am a bit suspicious of these claims as they are central to Chinese nationalism. In order to hold them you have to disregard the several periods where the country was…
It is through self-identification however. The Chinese people keep their history record consecutive for about 3000 years, if discounted Xia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-Four_Histories
Several key factors:
1. Chinese characters have been used in China ever since Qin, and never been successfully replaced by external conquerers. The character itself is pretty much recognizable by today's Chinese citizens.
2. China's dominating philosophy/religion, the Confucianism, is pretty much alive and never been replaced either. This top-down, parental style state-over-individual system is still a key element in operation of Chinese society on micro/macro level.
3. The dynasty model. One after another, never changes.
All in all, it is still due to self-identification.
"Until the Opium War of 1840–42 the European merchants and voyagers who reached the distant land of China had looked upon the Chinese with a good deal of awe as a people of superior culture." Bullshit and Chinese Propaganda with their "5000 years old culture". 5000 years ago we are talking about bones inscribed with precursors of the Chinese writing system. Not bad, but compare this to the Pyramids at the same time?…
> Around the year 0 the Chinese culture was en par with the level of western
> culture and technology - speak Rome.
>
> Only during the middle ages the west fell so far beyond and Chinese had indeed
> a superior level of technology, knowledge and administration. Things reversed
> again with the industrial revolution and the center of industrial GDP moved to
> the west again.
The Roman Empire was on par with China, but the Roman Empire was centred around the Near East – Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt, etc.
Western European parts of the Empire were very under-developed, and only really served as a buffer for Rome. (Consider how quickly the Roman Empire gave up the West after moving its capital to the East.)
In the Middle Ages the West was behind, but it was in ancient times too, so no difference. And the Near East was still on par – no difference again.
It's only really modern times that have been difference, with the West exploding out of nowhere. But that is probably just a blip, and in the grand scheme we will probably end up with China and the Near East rising again.
I was taught as a child in Australia that the Indigenous Australians were the world’s oldest living/surviving civilization.
They are probably excluded for not having any sort of symbolic communication system (writing, hieroglyphics, knot patterns, stuff like that).
40,000 years of oral traditions accurately reproduced over the generations. We 'civilised Europeans' can't even do 80 years.
The argument can be made that the FNP of Australia are not only the longest running civilisation, but in terms of actual human activity, the most advanced.
Longest-running, still in operation, mineral mines (20,000 years). They had cryptographic systems which not only kept the peace between 300 different languages, but enabled a massive trade network to flourish.
Personally, I consider China young in comparison, and the West absolutely juvenile.
Does it make sense to talk about the Chinese civilization like a single continuous civilization? That's a bit like saying Italy's civilization dates from the first Etruscan settlements or that French civilization is as old as the megaliths in Brittany. I am a bit suspicious of these claims as they are central to Chinese nationalism. In order to hold them you have to disregard the several periods where the country was…
It depends on how you define civilization I suppose, but there is definitely a difference between nation and civ, as well as sub-civs, and those can be reasonably estimated to date back ~12000 years. Edit: 12k would be the origin of the yellow river and Yangtze river delta civilizations, if memory serves. These would grow into the overarching Ancient China and then into China as a nation.
> Even a poor Chinese with no education is likely to have the instincts and bearing of an educated man. He sets great store by such things as personal dignity, self-respect, and respect for others. I get the impression that Taiwanese and Hong Kong people might not agree with this point to describe the mainlanders.
The article was written before communism. I've heard from different accounts that communism has had a deleterious effect on people's manner. I don't know if this is true or not, but it's a reasonable explanation.
Thats an understatement. Look at the history with the Great Leap Forward and how it changed chinese culture forever.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends on how you define civilization I suppose, but there is definitely a difference between nation and civ, as well as sub-civs, and those can be reasonably estimated to date back ~12000 years. Edit: 12k would be the origin of the yellow river and Yangtze river delta civilizations, if memory serves. These would grow into the overarching Ancient China and then into China as a nation.
As of what is known today, the earliest Chinese writing dates to ~ 2K BC, or about a thousand years later than earliest written languages in Mesopotamia. The Chinese Bronze Age starts at 1600 BC, whereas you have the Bronze Age starting around 3000 BC in Egypt and Mesopotamia. All evidence points to Chinese civilization being about 1000-2000 years "younger" than Mesopotamia or Egypt, and also younger than India.