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Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

thebalancecareers.com

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Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#21

Post by papito »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #5

Anecdotally, all of the most significant increases to quality of life in my social circle has come from getting a new job. I know someone who was making $65k one year ago, and is now making six figures. They're a talented and capable dev, but so are many of you. And this was the midwest. My own salary bumped from $35k to $75k during my early career after getting a job at a different gamedev studio. Before that, I was…

The raises in tech are pretty high if you are starting out and stand out among your peers. You can easily nail a 25K raise if you are underpaid. My first job, I requested so little money, they gave me MORE. But I learned a ton, and then my salary took off like a rocket.

But there IS a ceiling. At some point your salary flatlines as you become very expensive.

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#22

Post by steve_adams_86 »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #5

Anecdotally, all of the most significant increases to quality of life in my social circle has come from getting a new job. I know someone who was making $65k one year ago, and is now making six figures. They're a talented and capable dev, but so are many of you. And this was the midwest. My own salary bumped from $35k to $75k during my early career after getting a job at a different gamedev studio. Before that, I was…

I always told myself it wasn't worth the trouble to apply to jobs where the salary was 50%+ higher than my current salary. When I finally did (because the requirements were so well aligned with my skillset), I was floored by how eager they were to interview me. I think my previous job paid around 75k CAD which is... Admittedly terrible for someone with my experience. Now if I apply to jobs offering twice that salary I can often get an interview.

I know these numbers are tiny for many people on HN, but bear with me.

It truly does pay to just try. Why not find out? I've probably worked for far less than I was worth for the majority of my career. The day I became a developer I was titled as a graphic designer (I was a designer who could code), and I kept that title and salary for 2 years. That really set the tone for me, I think. I was making $32.5K/year building honest to gosh web applications.

Ironically I decided to do my own thing once I realized I was undervaluing myself. Probably not wise, but I've wanted to for so long and I never did because I figured I didn't have the skills.

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#23

Post by guynamedloren »

papito wrote: post #21
sillysaurusx wrote: post #5

Anecdotally, all of the most significant increases to quality of life in my social circle has come from getting a new job. I know someone who was making $65k one year ago, and is now making six figures. They're a talented and capable dev, but so are many of you. And this was the midwest. My own salary bumped from $35k to $75k during my early career after getting a job at a different gamedev studio. Before that, I was…

The raises in tech are pretty high if you are starting out and stand out among your peers. You can easily nail a 25K raise if you are underpaid. My first job, I requested so little money, they gave me MORE. But I learned a ton, and then my salary took off like a rocket. But there IS a ceiling. At some point your salary flatlines as you become very expensive.

The question is.. where is that ceiling? I'm thinking about next steps in my career and wondering if I've already hit that ceiling, or at least a local maximum (barring a switch to FAANG). Perhaps the best way to know is spend the time talking to potential employers?

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#24

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

oblio wrote: post #16
tempsy wrote: post #13

I’ve had a few 1.5 to 2 year stints and I get asked about it all the time. Certainly there are employers that don’t want to see that, though I’m sort of at a crossroads after 6 years in tech where I’ve realized part of the itch to move was less about money and a general dissatisfaction with a traditional 9-5, so I’ve since moved on from it and working on my own projects at the moment.

You get asked about those? I've had a bunch of 1 years (or less) stints plus a 1 year sabbatical and I don't think I ever got asked about them, even though I expected I would.

Depends on the market. 1 year stints in SV don't even register on the radar but in some European countries it could be a red flag.

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#25

Post by asdff »

Pfhreak wrote: post #20

> Millennials are labeled lazy, self-entitled, and, therefore, responsible for high turnover rates in the labor market. Who are they supposed to be loyal to? Certainly not their employer, who is squeezing every cent of labor value from their work. I'd understand this attitude if companies took care of their people or if the person was part of a worker's coop. Also, anecdotally, job hopping has been incredibly lucrati…

Anecdotally among my fellow millennials across different fields who've jobbed hopped, few did it for the promotion, most did it because they were being exploited and depressed.

Companies are becoming increasingly aware that they can get away with de facto 50+ hour weeks while offering the bare minimum in benefits because people are just that desperate to get a job that whittles down ye olde student loan and has a health plan with a 10k deductible.

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#26

Post by AmericanChopper »

laurieg wrote: post #19
solveit wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had the displeasure of working in a startup that ultimately folded once, all of the teammates I considered to be competent got new jobs within a week or so, all of the stragglers struggled immensely. This says good things about the industry's collective ability in evaluating job-seekers. A breath of fresh air amidst the weekly thinkpieces on how hiring is broken.

So instead of training up people with weaker skills we are just happy to see them out on the kerb? They had jobs already, so how bad could they really have been?

In my experience, people who want to develop their skills tend not to struggle much with employment. The people who I’ve personally seen get the most frustrated are the kind of people who don’t understand why their colleagues are upset about the 15,000 unfixable linting errors in their React spaghetti, and who proudly announce in standup that they fixed the failing pipeline by commenting the tests out. I’m sure we’ve all worked with people like that, and if they end up struggling to find employment, then yes that does reflect well on recruitment pipelines. They end up producing negative value in any organisation they work for.

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#27

Post by WalterBright »

guynamedloren wrote: post #23
papito wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The raises in tech are pretty high if you are starting out and stand out among your peers. You can easily nail a 25K raise if you are underpaid. My first job, I requested so little money, they gave me MORE. But I learned a ton, and then my salary took off like a rocket. But there IS a ceiling. At some point your salary flatlines as you become very expensive.

The question is.. where is that ceiling? I'm thinking about next steps in my career and wondering if I've already hit that ceiling, or at least a local maximum (barring a switch to FAANG). Perhaps the best way to know is spend the time talking to potential employers?

> The question is.. where is that ceiling?

There isn't one. It's all about what you can contribute to the company's bottom line. It's very unusual, but not impossible to get $1m.

You just gotta be able to show the company how much money they can make by hiring you. For example, can you make their server farm 1% more efficient? That's worth a great deal of money.

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#28

Post by taurath »

yibg wrote: post #11

Personally I find it harder to switch jobs often as I go up the ladder. There are just fewer positions and it gets more difficult to go directly into a high level position at a new company. This applies to both ICs and management. E.g most VPs and distinguished engineers stick around pretty long.

This starts to apply at the director level, where if you’re not even sticking around to see the outcomes of your decisions it tends to look bad. 5 years is the cap on that though, unless you’re constantly renegotiating.

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#29

Post by luckylion »

Pfhreak wrote: post #20

> Millennials are labeled lazy, self-entitled, and, therefore, responsible for high turnover rates in the labor market. Who are they supposed to be loyal to? Certainly not their employer, who is squeezing every cent of labor value from their work. I'd understand this attitude if companies took care of their people or if the person was part of a worker's coop. Also, anecdotally, job hopping has been incredibly lucrati…

> Certainly not their employer, who is squeezing every cent of labor value from their work.

> Also, anecdotally, job hopping has been incredibly lucrative for me.

It seems both sides are simply maximizing their value here.

Re: Job Tenure and the Myth of Job Hopping

#30

Post by firstplacelast »

cauthon wrote: post #3

I don’t think this article makes the right comparison to determine whether people switch jobs more often “these days”. They only go back to the mid 2000s. When I hear or talk about the idea that people change jobs more frequently now, I definitely include people who started working then, and I don’t think a decade is sufficient time to see a trend in tenure. I’d be more interested in a comparison between the 00s/10s…

I only have anecdata, but my Dad worked at a total of 2 places since his late 20’s (he retired several years ago).

He spent a decade at one company then left for another company where he worked for 30 years and topped out at a VP making 200-something a year in a low cost of living area.

No college degree, not very substantial critical thinking skills, and not a good “people person.”

When interviewing for his replacement, they wouldn’t consider anyone without an MBA.

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