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WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

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Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#71

Post by rmason »

reaperducer wrote: post #22
bitexploder wrote: post #5

> People living near the transmitter site often got better reception than they wanted; some lights would not turn off until WLW engineers helped rewire houses. Gutters rattled loose from buildings. A neon hotel sign near the transmitter never went dark. Farmers reported hearing WLW through their barbed-wire fences. That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that level of ambient power just…

That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that level of ambient power just buzzing through the air. Still, quite a feat of engineering to think about. It's very common, and becoming more common. WLW was a special case because it put out so much power it affected homes a fair distance away. But even stations as low as 1,000 watts have to deal with this today. I worked at close to a dozen d…

It isn't just radio stations and airports. I've seen plenty of people move out into the country and build right next to a large hog or dairy farm. The first summer they find out they can't use their backyard or open their windows so they sue their neighbor! It got so bad that here in Michigan they passed a law know as right to farm act to protect the farmers.

However when they wrote the law it never occurred to them that people would be farming in existing urban areas so they exempted them. That has caused problems in Detroit where people wanted to create commercial farms with all that available land (as well as city water for irrigation) but were denied the same protection.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#72

Post by Polylactic_acid »

tlrobinson wrote: post #65
mmhsieh wrote: post #16

for national security it would be best to shut this puppy down because it is broadcasting our position to extraterresterial civilizations, not all of whom may be friendly.

> for national security Don't you mean planetary security?

Planet America.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#76

Post by dredmorbius »

rmason wrote: post #73

For those of you too young to remember the Crosley automobile: http://www.classic-car-history.com/crosley-cars.htm I remember in the sixties and seventies people dropping a small block V-8 into them to use as dragsters.

I came across a Crosley Shelvador, mentioned in the article, the first refrigerator with built-in shelves, apparently.

Built in the 1950s, by the early 1990s, the unit was 1) still functioning, 2) in absolutely beautiful condition, and 3) as or more efficient than modern "energy-efficient" refrigerators.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#77

Post by dredmorbius »

Udo wrote: post #56
donarb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power input to the transmitter is much larger than the power coming out of it. All those tubes generates a lot of heat.

So let's say this is 10% efficient, that means 50W per citizen. Clearly, there is something I'm not getting. Do power companies really budget 50W per user? I mean it's possible but that seems very low to me.

In 1934, electricity use was limited, and still fairly novel in many places. Utterly unavailable in much of the rural US (look into the rural electrical cooperatives).

Principle household uses would have been lighting and refrigeration, possibly a few clocks, a radio, and perhaps appliances.

Averaged over a day, draw per person could well have been only a few tens of watts. 50W per person for a household of four would be about 150 kWh per month, which sounds roughly reasonable.

The 2018 US average was 914 kWh/mo:

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3

In 1930, direct electrical use was only 1% of total household energy consumption. Coal was 69%, fuelwood still 23%. Expressed as kWh/mo (the source below has graphs giving nationwide trillions of BTU/yr electrical equivalent) the number looks closer to 80 kWh/mo, or 110 watt constant, about 28 watt/person assuming a family of four.

https://aceee.org/files/proceedings/1992/data/papers/SS92_Pa...

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#78

Post by dredmorbius »

henryfjordan wrote: post #64
jhoechtl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be true for omnidirectional transmission. Much much less for a directed transmission.

You'd have to know where the aliens are for that to matter!

Given the detection of exoplanets of approximately Earth mass orbiting in habitable zones, that's rapidly become tenable.

Laser / maser signalling would probably be about the best we could do for now.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#79

Post by tinus_hn »

reaperducer wrote: post #22
bitexploder wrote: post #5

> People living near the transmitter site often got better reception than they wanted; some lights would not turn off until WLW engineers helped rewire houses. Gutters rattled loose from buildings. A neon hotel sign near the transmitter never went dark. Farmers reported hearing WLW through their barbed-wire fences. That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that level of ambient power just…

That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that level of ambient power just buzzing through the air. Still, quite a feat of engineering to think about. It's very common, and becoming more common. WLW was a special case because it put out so much power it affected homes a fair distance away. But even stations as low as 1,000 watts have to deal with this today. I worked at close to a dozen d…

Also these transmitters use a lot of energy which these days is pretty expensive.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#80

Post by wglb »

paulirwin wrote: post #28
mmhsieh wrote: post #16

for national security it would be best to shut this puppy down because it is broadcasting our position to extraterresterial civilizations, not all of whom may be friendly.

At AM radio frequencies, most of the radio waves are reflected back to earth or absorbed in the ionosphere. Same concept as how amateur radio HF/MF propagation allows individuals to communicate with people around the world, past the horizon. (The 160m ham band nearly backs right up to the top end of the AM radio band.) You can even sometimes hear your own echo, apparently, as the signals travel the entire way around…

I have a recording done long ago of my signal going around the world, I think maybe on 40m or 15m. It is pretty rare.
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