Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

strongtowns.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 324 posts

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#51

Post by Polylactic_acid »

mumblemumble wrote: post #40
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #20

I'm planning to live a car free life soon. I'll be moving in to the city so almost everything is within walking distance and just about everything is accessable via public transport. The only thing I haven't been able work out is how I will continue to go mtn biking since bikes aren't allowed on the bus. But I just can't justify the massive expense of owning a car and a car park for one activity.

Mountain biking is one of the things I gave up when I moved to the city. I thought that maybe I'd occasionally rent a car and drive out to a state park, but what I quickly discovered was that, once driving stopped being a part of my daily life, the idea of regularly driving out to a forest preserve lost its palatability. Largely because I am no longer inured to driving, so any plan for how to spend my leisure time th…

I think I'll likely end up the same as you. I also enjoy road cycling so I think I will probably just sell the mtb and go full time road. A bit sad but the other benefits I expect to see will make it worth it.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#52

Post by donjoe »

oneplane wrote: post #8

I wonder what the numbers are like in west EU as a comparison.

In Germany, a km of Autobahn costs ~10M € which is around 16M €/mile [0].

An Autobahn built in/towards a city tend to get way more expensive.

[0] https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/bundesregierung-p...

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#53

Post by ip26 »

burfog wrote: post #32
ryanar wrote: post #2

I feel like I am missing something here, a mile of road in a rural area costs $1,500,000 to reconstruct? How do small towns afford to maintain their roads?? Perhaps there are many costs that don't inflate as the number of miles increases, like the equipment needed to break down and repave the roads?

With property lines being about 100 feet apart, that comes to 100 houses. It's just $15,000 per house. The road should last 50 years without heavy truck traffic, making it $3000 per year per house.

$3000 per year per house

In other words completely out of reach of the kind of town we're talking about?

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#54

Post by MiracleUser »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #14
dougweltman wrote: post #7

This does not address a larger question: how much does a mile of road cost to keep ? This is the installed base question. Consider the amount of road that has been built out in the US relative to the populations that road is serving. Maintenance and expansion is paid out mainly from state and local taxes. That's an enormous civilizational overhead the US contends with, not to mention the economic cost of a large port…

This reminds me of a blog post about the unsustainability of suburbs — https://mikethemadbiologist.com/2017/03/20/the-fiscal-unsust... Even if this $1.5m figure is wildly inflated, calculate how few people live on a given mile in the suburbs, a conservative estimate on how much it costs to maintain a road, and the numbers just don't add up. The suburbs were a ponzi scheme and the bottom is about to fall out.

The suburbs will maintain their own roads before the bottom falls out. low income suburbs probably will not survive, but there's no law that says they cant have shitty roads that require a jeep to drive on

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#55

Post by stevenwoo »

kazinator wrote: post #23
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a blog post about the unsustainability of suburbs — https://mikethemadbiologist.com/2017/03/20/the-fiscal-unsust... Even if this $1.5m figure is wildly inflated, calculate how few people live on a given mile in the suburbs, a conservative estimate on how much it costs to maintain a road, and the numbers just don't add up. The suburbs were a ponzi scheme and the bottom is about to fall out.

Or maybe how much road costs in the USA is a bit of a strawman version of how much road costs. Come on, some remote villages in the third world have paved roads to them.

And in the USA some rural areas have been "unpaving" roads because they have done the financial math : https://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructu...

https://www.nap.edu/read/21935/chapter/1

very limited discussion a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15272140

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#56

Post by Symbiote »

rayiner wrote: post #27
ryanar wrote: post #2

I feel like I am missing something here, a mile of road in a rural area costs $1,500,000 to reconstruct? How do small towns afford to maintain their roads?? Perhaps there are many costs that don't inflate as the number of miles increases, like the equipment needed to break down and repave the roads?

The relevant number here is the cost to repave, not reconstruct, which is about $330,000-$350,000 per mile for a minor arterial road in a rural or urban area. As to how small towns afford it--you don't repave that often, and you focus efforts on what to repave. For example, Cedar Rapids, Iowa calculated it would cost $500 million over 10 years to repave everything that needs to be repaved: https://www.kcrg.com/conten…

Remember in this comparison that a metro line has significantly higher capacity than an average road, and the metro cost includes the vehicles, fuel and drivers. Also, the uncosted externalities (CO₂, air pollution, accidents, noise) are significantly lower for the metro.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#57

Post by slowhand09 »

I think of this as I drive 30ish miles each way to work. 5 miles of surface roads, 19 miles of interstate (2 lanes each way), and 6 miles of surface (2 lanes each way). One cause for increased construction is the need for more capacity. My frequent lament is poor driving habits. We have regular instances of sub-optimal speeds in both lanes. A 65 mph limit and vehicles driving 55mph in both lanes, frequently with 1/4 of open lane ahead. Vehicles behind begin to crowd and we experience the slinky effect. After 3 years we add another lane. And the cycle continues. Driver education used to emphasize keeping right except to pass. I think this isn't taught anymore.

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#58

Post by notatoad »

MiracleUser wrote: post #54
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a blog post about the unsustainability of suburbs — https://mikethemadbiologist.com/2017/03/20/the-fiscal-unsust... Even if this $1.5m figure is wildly inflated, calculate how few people live on a given mile in the suburbs, a conservative estimate on how much it costs to maintain a road, and the numbers just don't add up. The suburbs were a ponzi scheme and the bottom is about to fall out.

The suburbs will maintain their own roads before the bottom falls out. low income suburbs probably will not survive, but there's no law that says they cant have shitty roads that require a jeep to drive on

when the roads require a jeep to drive on, it's no longer a suburb - it's the country. the promise of the suburbs is that it's all the luxuries of city living, with all the space of rural living. Losing the amenities of the city is exactly how i would interpret "the bottom falling out"

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#59

Post by stevenwoo »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #20

I'm planning to live a car free life soon. I'll be moving in to the city so almost everything is within walking distance and just about everything is accessable via public transport. The only thing I haven't been able work out is how I will continue to go mtn biking since bikes aren't allowed on the bus. But I just can't justify the massive expense of owning a car and a car park for one activity.

How did you pick the city, and if you do not mind revealing what city or general location?

Re: How Much Does a Mile of Road Cost?

#60

Post by ip26 »

lukasm wrote: post #48
dillonmckay wrote: post #29

Are there any sustainable road construction technologies and materials that do not rely on petrochemicals?

Concrete is pretty much the only alternative that can handle 40+ tonnes trucks and be cost effective. It will last longer, but it's more expensive to build - could be cheaper on the long run. You get a bit more tire noise and less traction than on the asphalt.

Less repairable as well.
Post reply on HN