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WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

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Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#21
post #16

for national security it would be best to shut this puppy down because it is broadcasting our position to extraterresterial civilizations, not all of whom may be friendly.

Military radars, su h as early missile warning systems, might achieve higher power signals, and their signals are much, much better focused.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#22

> People living near the transmitter site often got better reception than they wanted; some lights would not turn off until WLW engineers helped rewire houses. Gutters rattled loose from buildings. A neon hotel sign near the transmitter never went dark. Farmers reported hearing WLW through their barbed-wire fences. That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that level of ambient power just…

That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that level of ambient power just buzzing through the air. Still, quite a feat of engineering to think about.

It's very common, and becoming more common.

WLW was a special case because it put out so much power it affected homes a fair distance away. But even stations as low as 1,000 watts have to deal with this today.

I worked at close to a dozen different AM stations in a previous life. It's very common for AM transmission towers to be located in flat, moist areas. I'm not an electrical engineer, but from what I remember, flat is preferred so the groundwave signal travels farther, and marshy for electrical reasons.

The problem is that when vast majority of AM stations were built, they transmitters were in the middle of nowhere. Since then, the suburbs have surrounded these facilities with homes, sometimes building houses right up to the property line, and people get interference in their electronics. And they're not happy about it. If they're close enough, everything with a speaker in the house only broadcasts that nearby station. Radios, TV's, even things that don't have "speakers," but are able to pick up the radio waves and resonate.

It's like when people build a house next to an airport, and then complain about all the damn airplane noise.

For reasons I don't understand from an electrical standpoint, it was particularly bad at one 1,000-watt station where I worked in the mid-90's. The General Manager's attitude was along the lines of, "Why would you move next door to a radio station? Didn't you notice the 300-foot-tall red-and-white tower with all the blinking lights out front?" Of course, that's a wholly unsatisfying answer to a new homeowner.

Since I left radio, I've read that there are a number of AM stations that have gone off the air simply because of the angry neighbors. They get the local politicians to pass zoning regulations that end up forcing the AM stations to move their towers, but the stations have nowhere else to go for three reasons: First, because they have to be located within a certain area to fulfill the coverage requirements of their license; second, depending on the station's transmitting characteristics, they may need a pretty large piece of land for multiple towers; and third, because AM radio doesn't make a lot of money, they may not be able to afford new land. So for some, they just go dark.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#23

Of course, for most broadcasters and regulators debating these broad delivery systems, “listeners” meant Americans who were white and middle or working class. Programming reinforced presumed middle class values. While some local stations offered programming targeted to ethnic groups, occupations, and even political beliefs, black Americans and other minority groups were largely left out of national radio, except as c…

"The Magazine of the National Endowment for the Humanities" How is this excerpt not relevant to the stated mission of the publication? The article goes beyond the scope of mere engineering.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#24
post #16

for national security it would be best to shut this puppy down because it is broadcasting our position to extraterresterial civilizations, not all of whom may be friendly.

Military radars, su h as early missile warning systems, might achieve higher power signals, and their signals are much, much better focused.

that is a very good point. we should also shut down BMEWS and send a manned constellation up there to spot ICBMs visually. this is a good billet for the space force.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#25
Current most powerful is 2000 kW in France. How these modern ones are different from old times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roumoules_radio_transmitter "..The longwave transmitter at Roumoules, which was inaugurated in 1974, transmits at 216 kHz (until 1988: 218 kHz) with a transmission power of 1400 kW (until 1976: 2000 kW)...."

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#26
post #16

for national security it would be best to shut this puppy down because it is broadcasting our position to extraterresterial civilizations, not all of whom may be friendly.

They'll hear the War of the Worlds prank broadcast and come rushing to our defense.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#27

> People living near the transmitter site often got better reception than they wanted; some lights would not turn off until WLW engineers helped rewire houses. Gutters rattled loose from buildings. A neon hotel sign near the transmitter never went dark. Farmers reported hearing WLW through their barbed-wire fences. That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that level of ambient power just…

The Vatican Radio has a 500kW transmitter, plus several lower powered ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Radio There was a lawsuit about it causing leukemia, but it is unclear how substantial that is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Radio_lawsuit

>The risk of childhood leukemia was higher than expected for the distance up to 6 km from the radio station (standardized incidence rate = 2.2, 95% confidence interval: 1.0, 4.1), and there was a significant decline in risk with increasing distance both for male mortality (p = 0.03) and for childhood leukemia (p = 0.036).

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/155/12/1096/123184

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#28
post #16

for national security it would be best to shut this puppy down because it is broadcasting our position to extraterresterial civilizations, not all of whom may be friendly.

At AM radio frequencies, most of the radio waves are reflected back to earth or absorbed in the ionosphere. Same concept as how amateur radio HF/MF propagation allows individuals to communicate with people around the world, past the horizon. (The 160m ham band nearly backs right up to the top end of the AM radio band.) You can even sometimes hear your own echo, apparently, as the signals travel the entire way around the earth, although I've yet to experience this. (Recent Extra class licensed ham radio operator here. 73.)

Higher frequencies, on the other hand, are not reflected back by the ionosphere and go straight out into space. That's why you typically use VHF frequencies (30-300 MHz) for things like EME "earth-moon-earth" or "moonbounce" communication, or communication via satellite. So if your concern is about radio waves making our planet a beacon for aliens, you should be more concerned about FM radio towers than AM ones.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#29

> People living near the transmitter site often got better reception than they wanted; some lights would not turn off until WLW engineers helped rewire houses. Gutters rattled loose from buildings. A neon hotel sign near the transmitter never went dark. Farmers reported hearing WLW through their barbed-wire fences. That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that level of ambient power just…

Reminds me of this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9UO9tn4MpI

Obviously don't do this. I would be concerned about standing this close as well, radio burns are super nasty.

Re: WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015)

#30
post #16

for national security it would be best to shut this puppy down because it is broadcasting our position to extraterresterial civilizations, not all of whom may be friendly.

At AM radio frequencies, most of the radio waves are reflected back to earth or absorbed in the ionosphere. Same concept as how amateur radio HF/MF propagation allows individuals to communicate with people around the world, past the horizon. (The 160m ham band nearly backs right up to the top end of the AM radio band.) You can even sometimes hear your own echo, apparently, as the signals travel the entire way around…

that is a good point, i always forget about the ionospheric plasma. however, there is going to be some amount of outbound re-radiation from the plasma. the sound quality by the time you get to alpha centauri is going to lousy but any alien civ capable of coming over here and sucking up our precious atmosphere is probably going to have good enough spectroscopy and computing to reconstruct our morning zoo broadcasts and judge that we are not worthy to have nitrogen.
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