Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 64 posts

Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

#11

Post by philbarr »

lqet wrote: post #2

Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…

Reminds me of this story from WW2 [0]. I'm sure I saw a documentary about this but that's the only reference I can find.

"In late December 1942 Grimson and Allan Morris walked out of the camp with a group of German servicemen but were recaptured 2 days later, when they showed more courtesy than was expected from a German Officer. The prisoner forgery department had produced the documents necessary for the escape and the German uniforms to go over their civilian clothing. Both Grimson and Morris had again noticed that they had near doubles serving as officers in the German guard company who they impersonated and both had lain in wait for 3 nights fully disguised in their German uniforms waiting for the right moment when the two clones attended the show. Outside the wire they changed into civilian clothes disguised as foreign workers, walking to Sagan station and catching a train to the outskirts of Leipzig before being caught."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Grimson

Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

#12

Post by scarejunba »

numlock86 wrote: post #3
lqet wrote: post #2

Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…

> You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. You can even digitalize this part already. All you need are 5 seconds of recording and a pre-trained model in the desired language/accent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sR1rU3gLzQ

Very cool. Thanks for sharing. I wonder why the warbling is easier to detect in the male voices. They sound like a computer. But very cool advancement.

Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

#14

Post by ramraj07 »

lqet wrote: post #2

Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…

In the past, you needed to put effort to fake things. Of course, people still exist that believe the moonlanding videos were faked, but their hypothesis hinges on the government spending extraordinary amounts of money to produce the fake.

Deepfakes are deeply troubling, because anyone with a computer (a requirement that's getting optional as well quite fast) can fake any video almost instantly.

Consider just one sinister motive that's already making women in many countries cower in fear: if you reject a dude he can just make a deepfake porn video with you and release it as revenge. What's the equivalent of this in the distant past? All a guy could have done is "allege" the woman is so-and-so, which to be sure, probably did ruin some women's lives, but it's almost as if our society has devolved back to that same Stone age at best then.

And we live in a time when "facts" already don't matter much anymore and people are just looking to find evidence that supports their claim alone rather than the truth. To not take this technology seriously, to brush it off because "sensible" people will still pursue to seek the truth, is the kind of smug arrogance about questionable tech that has led us to the current overall shit:sandwich state of affairs to begin with. Let's hope we learn some lessons at least.

Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

#15

Post by prox »

lqet wrote: post #2

Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…

One rule there was in old times you always had 2 witnesses with you for any important event to vouch for. Reasoning was that it is a lot more difficult to do any trickery when more people are involved.

Just because we scaled a lot of services in a digital network means our trust services need to adapt as well.

Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

#16

Post by keiferski »

ramraj07 wrote: post #14
lqet wrote: post #2

Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…

In the past, you needed to put effort to fake things. Of course, people still exist that believe the moonlanding videos were faked, but their hypothesis hinges on the government spending extraordinary amounts of money to produce the fake. Deepfakes are deeply troubling, because anyone with a computer (a requirement that's getting optional as well quite fast) can fake any video almost instantly. Consider just one sini…

What the original commenter is saying, and what I will agree will happen, is that the behavior of automatically trusting video as evidence will go away. I think this is actually a good thing if it encourages people to dig deeper into the sources of information.

> If you reject a dude he can just make a deepfake porn video with you and release it as revenge.

This will be troubling at first, but again in the long run it will likely just lead to people not taking these sort of videos seriously and interpreting them as a joke / weird stuff on the Internet. This already essentially happens with Photoshop and celebrities.

> And we live in a time when "facts" already don't matter much anymore and people are just looking to find evidence that supports their claim alone rather than the truth

This is how human beings have been since the beginning of time. There is no "Golden Age of Rationality" that we are exiting.

Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

#17

Post by keiferski »

lqet wrote: post #2

Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…

Similar things happened in Russia and the Ottoman Empire - people claiming to be so-and-so, heir to the throne. As with anything else, if you are/aren't validated by society + the "gatekeepers of power", it doesn't really matter how good/bad your fake evidence is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Dmitry

Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

#18

Post by jokoon »

The human brain is very skilled at recognizing faces, it's the result of evolution.

While deepfake are high quality, I think most people can notice that it's not entirely authentic. A deepfake cannot really account for the shape of the skull, face mimics, face muscles, how the head and jaw move, etc, there are many things that the human brain works on to identify a face. I'm not really sure that deepfakes measure and render all those things reliably.

So I'm not really convinced by deepfakes in general. It's mostly a glorified silicon mask, nothing more: it will trick people if they're far away enough. Those might be able to fool face recognition softwares, but not humans, even those who are aware of deepfakes.

Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]

#19

Post by mbel »

ramraj07 wrote: post #14
lqet wrote: post #2

Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…

In the past, you needed to put effort to fake things. Of course, people still exist that believe the moonlanding videos were faked, but their hypothesis hinges on the government spending extraordinary amounts of money to produce the fake. Deepfakes are deeply troubling, because anyone with a computer (a requirement that's getting optional as well quite fast) can fake any video almost instantly. Consider just one sini…

With deep fakes easily available I believe the pornographic video material ultimately will have the same weight as a rumor, it's somewhat true for photos today. We definitely need a common way to propagate trusted information, but keeping videos as absolutely trustworthy is not possible anymore.
Post reply on HN