Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
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Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
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Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#2Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is demonstrated by the many Doppelgängers used by politicians in the past. The power of the house Habsburg basically had its roots in several imperial documents and bulls faked by Rudolf IV. in 1358 (which was only discovered in the 19th century).
This isn't a new phenomenon that now means that we cannot trust anything anymore - it's only that the fakes are finally catching up with live video.
Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#3Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…
> You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone.
You can even digitalize this part already. All you need are 5 seconds of recording and a pre-trained model in the desired language/accent.
Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#4It scares ma a lot!
Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#5Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…
> You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. You can even digitalize this part already. All you need are 5 seconds of recording and a pre-trained model in the desired language/accent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sR1rU3gLzQ
Right... but the point is that you _don't_ need fancy neural networks, you _only_ really need someone with an actually not that uncommon skill.
Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. You can even digitalize this part already. All you need are 5 seconds of recording and a pre-trained model in the desired language/accent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sR1rU3gLzQ
Right... but the point is that you _don't_ need fancy neural networks, you _only_ really need someone with an actually not that uncommon skill.
Yes. But I think there is another way to look at this: You _don't_ need fancy people with a not so uncommon skill, you _only_ need a bit of computing power.
Point is: I totally agree! The entry level to fake something is really low. No matter the technical value or skills you bring to the table.
Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right... but the point is that you _don't_ need fancy neural networks, you _only_ really need someone with an actually not that uncommon skill.
Yes. But I think there is another way to look at this: You _don't_ need fancy people with a not so uncommon skill, you _only_ need a bit of computing power. Point is: I totally agree! The entry level to fake something is really low. No matter the technical value or skills you bring to the table.
But the point of the comment being responded to--which I also think is a very important point that it feels like you missed--is this isn't some new issue, caused by computers.
Zeitgeist: panic, "the concept of truth is being destroyed by advancements in computers!!!"
OP: sigh, "no... you have always been able to trick people, such as with audio, using a trained voice actor"
You: "but, even with audio, you can also trick people with fancy new computers!"
Me: ?!?
Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#8Before anyone is panicking, please remind yourself that whatever medium was used by humans as a form of communication in the last few thousand years, was also used for fakes. You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. Fake photographs are as old as photography. Even the probably most immediate form of interpersonal communication, seeing another person, can be faked, which is…
I'm glad to see this point being made fairly often.
I see the "base reality" debate in a similar situation. Base reality could be the same thing as a religion, where the "god" is the system operator [1]. That way, you are "only" as scared of multiple levels of reality as you are of religion. But perhaps more importantly, that way you have 2000+ years of debate and reflection on the topic.
[1] Not my idea.
Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. But I think there is another way to look at this: You _don't_ need fancy people with a not so uncommon skill, you _only_ need a bit of computing power. Point is: I totally agree! The entry level to fake something is really low. No matter the technical value or skills you bring to the table.
But the point of the comment being responded to--which I also think is a very important point that it feels like you missed--is this isn't some new issue, caused by computers. Zeitgeist: panic , "the concept of truth is being destroyed by advancements in computers!!!" OP: sigh , "no... you have always been able to trick people, such as with audio, using a trained voice actor" You: "but, even with audio, you can also…
The OP seems as if he understood that, but his argument is that this new technology makes the costs significantly lower. The lowering of cost has a strong impact in itself.
In other words, almost no one would have bothered seeking out and then paying a talented individual with a somewhat uncommon skill in the vast majority of cases. Once this kind of software is available for free and packaged in such a package that almost zero effort is needed in order to achieve the same effect, a significantly higher number of people will do it.
So something important has changed. I agree that the alarmist stance is still unwarranted, though.
Re: Pinscreen Deepfake Live Prototype [video]
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You only need a half-decent voice actor to pretend you are someone else on the phone. You can even digitalize this part already. All you need are 5 seconds of recording and a pre-trained model in the desired language/accent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sR1rU3gLzQ
Right... but the point is that you _don't_ need fancy neural networks, you _only_ really need someone with an actually not that uncommon skill.
Using voice actors and doppelgängers does not scale.
It is similar to the argument that automated surveillance is not bad because you could as well observe someone yourself. Sure that is possible but in reality it is limited to the niche of police and private detectors because it does not scale well.