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This week in KDE: Converging towards something special

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Re: This week in KDE: Converging towards something special

#41

Post by simion314 »

acqq wrote: post #32
simion314 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Casual users don't install an OS, as i said they don't even install an ad blocker or change the keyboard shortcuts to an app. The people you are talking about are enthusiasts, the probably re-installed Windows before too,

> Casual users don't install an OS Your definition is useless: it would just mean that casual users simply never use Linux OS at all, and aren't supposed to use it, as these with your definition also wouldn't have an awareness to specifically buy a separate computer with preinstalled Linux. To make a definition of a "Linux casual user" in any way meaningful, you have to assume that it's somebody who would like to try…

OK, so you were meaning casual Linux user not a casual computer user.

In my definition a casual user has his computer setup and managed by somebody else. Someone that helps the casual person to buy the laptop/PC that fits their budget and needs, that installs the browser and extensions for them, that installs the apps they need like Skype.Word installs the printer and other devices for them.

Someone that can installs Linux (usually you need to go in BIOS/UEFI to enable boot order and disable secure boot and other shit) is not a casual in my opinion.

Do you think that Ubuntu users are the casuals and Arch are the power users? I will disagree with that, I used Arch in the past but now I am happy with Kubuntu LTS just because a DE and OS is a launcher for my applications and not a identity.

About Ubuntu home page, I assume Canonical is not trying to target the casuals with that page, casuals can't just download and install Ubuntu on any random laptop or PC, there s also no money to be made.

Re: This week in KDE: Converging towards something special

#42

Post by simion314 »

ubercow13 wrote: post #37
simion314 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's always something that is not right in the UI foundation What is fundamentally broken with their UI that a competent person can't change?

Often with newer UI frameworks like that used by plasma, basic interactions with familiar widgets just don't work as expected. It's the same argument levied against any non-native app whenever this comes up, whether it's QML or Electron or whatever. As a concrete example, the KDE application menu will close whenever you move the cursor off of it onto another window, unlike any menu in any other desktop UI widget tool…

It seems to be a bug but for me personally Plasma is not the reason I use KDE, I love KWin and krunner and all the other applications. KWin the window manager is very configurable so I can do a lot of things with it, krunner I launch my apps with it without using the mouse, the file manager is configurable and good for my use cases, the text editor is also very decent for small and quick edits. On top of that GTK2 and GTK3 apps are integrated as much as possible.

If other DE matches you needs better and if it does it by default then I am happy for you I am not trying to sell you anything.

Re: This week in KDE: Converging towards something special

#43

Post by johnchristopher »

simion314 wrote: post #20
agumonkey wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been tring and eyeing KDE since 4. There's always something that is not right in the UI foundation. I've heard how lean to WM/GUI code is, low mem usage .. but I always end up in XFCE.

>There's always something that is not right in the UI foundation What is fundamentally broken with their UI that a competent person can't change?

The fact that today I accidentally deleted $XDG_DATA_HOME instead of \$XDG_DATA_HOME (somehow `# vim` keep re-creating that directory) in my $HOME folder and now I can't seem to bind META+T to Konsole and META+E to Dolphin.

Any other applications, I can bind. Any other shortcuts I can. But Meta+T/E to Konsole/Dolphin, I can't. Fortunately KDE doesn't seem to store much in ~/.local/share (which is where $XDG_DATA_HOME points to). edit: ah, a reboot later and it works as usual... go figure (not saying it's KDE's fault, it maybe be an .xprofile or some .voodoo mismatch).

And the fact that some options in the default configuration panel can actually only be used when you chown certain files to root (the login manager background for instance).

I love KDE though, the UI is way cleaner than it was before, it's fast, the whole desktop feels visually coherent, but it still feels like climbing a tree with a gazillion branches when configuring it through the configuration UI.

(and someday the automatic sound output switching will work, but not today)

Re: This week in KDE: Converging towards something special

#44

Post by simion314 »

johnchristopher wrote: post #43
simion314 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's always something that is not right in the UI foundation What is fundamentally broken with their UI that a competent person can't change?

The fact that today I accidentally deleted $XDG_DATA_HOME instead of \$XDG_DATA_HOME (somehow `# vim` keep re-creating that directory) in my $HOME folder and now I can't seem to bind META+T to Konsole and META+E to Dolphin. Any other applications, I can bind. Any other shortcuts I can. But Meta+T/E to Konsole/Dolphin, I can't. Fortunately KDE doesn't seem to store much in ~/.local/share (which is where $XDG_DATA_HOME…

I am not excusing KDE here, I can't be sure but there is a chance that is a packaging/distro issue.

My question was for OP to present the fundamental UI issue, I am sure there are hundreds or touand of bugs in the KDE bug tracker but I am not aware of a fundamental issue unlike the other popular DE that has a major architectural issue .

Re: This week in KDE: Converging towards something special

#45

Post by brylie »

algorithmmonkey wrote: post #5
brylie wrote: post #3

I've been using Kubuntu at home and work for over four years now, and it has been a stable and productive experience. The only significant difficulty I can recall was immediately after upgrading from 19.04 to 19.10, where GRUB was having difficulty with a Secure Boot extension. I should have waited for the 19.10.1 release, but the issue was relatively easy to fix by commenting out a line in GRUB config. I really beli…

A casual computer user is going to figure out they need to comment out a GRUB line? Nope. That is an experience that will push them right back to OSX or Windows.

I was just being honest that there are still some unforseeable difficulties, as well as mistakes that I have made. I think any operating system can present challenges that are difficult for novice users. That's why we have user groups, tech support, and repair services.

Re: This week in KDE: Converging towards something special

#46

Post by brylie »

acqq wrote: post #26
simion314 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. A casual user might not even know that those things are called "windows" or that you can maximize them or that most application have settings where you can change the behavior you dislike. Causal users just use the system how it is, I sometimes find them suffering trough a complicated workflow because they did not consider to even ask themselves "maybe this can be improved,…

> Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. Casual user hears about Linux, and that Ubuntu is the most popular Linux, then goes to the site https://ubuntu.com/ And reads: "Ubuntu 19.10 is here The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning. Download Ubuntu 19.10 now" And the problems begin -- he will have to upgrade twice a year. The branding would…

When clicking the Download link on Ubuntu.com, the LTS version for both desktop and server is highlighted in green:

https://ubuntu.com/#download

The design of the ubuntu.com download buttons encourages people to download the LTS version while making the latest stable version easy to find as well.

Re: This week in KDE: Converging towards something special

#47

Post by chinesempire »

blinkingled wrote: post #4

Anyone thinking about using Linux on their desktop or laptop should give latest KDE a try. Rolling release distros like Arch or OpenSuse Tumbleweed should be good options. Reasons you may like it - no new paradigm bs to learn just your plain old customizable desktop, it’s stable(they’re fixing stuff like crazy every week), if you don’t like something they are making contributing to / building KDE components very easy…

I remember trying KDE before it reached it's first public release in 1997.

I went back and forth with it for 20 years, but 2 years ago I tried plasma to address an issue with XFCE4 and my 4k monitor and I never looked back.

It's stable, rock solid, lightweight and has the best support for scaling I've seen on Linux until now.

It still has some glitches on GTK apps and with theming, but overall is my DE of choice right now (XFCE4 is still my favourite, but KDE just works)

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