Live data from Hacker News

Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

kevq.uk

171–179 of 179 posts

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#171
post #14

And HN is arguably better for not being invite-only. There are so many articles on HN where the top comment is by somebody with deep domain knowledge who provides some kind of original insight that fits into the low length and polish expectations of a comment, but would never have become a formal blog post. Invite-only communities intentionally give up on that kind of discourse for... what? Easier moderation?

I think that when our reputations are on the line, that we act much better but also discard the grit and sharp edges that are the catalyst for interest and growth. I believe that we begin to converge on a single, aggregate pseudo-personality that is the most accepted register for communicating within. Karma points enable this convergence because they are the only metric that we can do data analysis on comment quality…

>I believe that we artificially act better than we are,

Most of the time when I see unproductive conversations go back-and-forth here, it's often clear (or I'm quick to give the benefit of doubt) that at least one of them is a newbie trying to meaningfully contribute to a conversation where they don't know how much they don't know. But there's a sizable number of posts where I'm convinced the poster is a passive aggressive asshole that knows exactly the game they're playing. As long as they can hold a conversation with the surface level appearance of someone acting reasonable and polite, they get to be wildly disingenuous and/or cut people down nastier than the kind of comments that would be immediately moderated away.

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#172
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are like five people in this thread offering invites, it's not that hard.

So that renders the invite system about as useful as a captcha. What's the point again?

https://lobste.rs/about#invitations

> Invitations are used as a mechanism for spam-control, to slow registrations to a pace we can acculturate and to encourage users to be nice, not to make the Lobsters userbase an elite club.

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#173
post #160
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sign that moderation mechanisms and user mechanisms sometimes produce different outcomes, which is true of every aspect of HN, and is why moderation is necessary in the first place. I wouldn't draw specific conclusions about gender issues from that. Gender is a well-represented topic on HN, and has been for years. Some people feel it should be more so, some less so; that is also the case for every prominent to…

Did my other comment here legitimately get flagged? I am supremely confused by that. I guess you could read that first sentence as rude, but that hardly seems flagging worthy. I also have no idea if that is even the reason it was flagged because flagging requires no justification on HN. Dang, do you see how that flagged comment reinforces my point?

I'm afraid I don't. Sure there's abuse of the flagging system; there's abuse of everything. But HN's system as a whole (consisting of community, software, and moderation) has countervailing mechanisms for that and other abuses. The example you raised, of threads about women and gender issues, shows this very much, since those not only do not "always get flagged" as you claimed, but just the opposite: it is one of the more prominent topics on HN, as I've explained.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what your point is, other than to complain about downvotes and flags, which is a discussion that gets increasingly repetitive and tedious, which is no doubt why the posts attracted further downvotes and flags.

For sure it sucks to see one's comments downvoted or flagged. The best response to this is to reflect on what in your comment might have led to that. Usually it's not so hard to see this if you're willing to look objectively. If you do see something, that's good learning for next time. If you don't, chalk it up to the quirks of other users and move on—it's priced in for everybody, and focusing on it further (e.g. by demanding reasons) is a poor use of energy and an especially poor direction for further discussion.

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#174
post #7
post #2

The invite-only nature will only benefit the site while it's small. It will either stay small or suffer the same users as other sites. The down-vote with reason feature is nice.

I'll be interested to see how they leverage the user tree. I'm no expert in social media bots, but it seems like the user invitation tree could be important to identifying not just networks of bots that are generating low-value content and trying to amplify certain viewpoints, but the people inviting those bots into the network in the first place.

(I'm the Lobsters admin.)

Users and mods have used it to detect sockpuppets and voting rings. We've had almost zero trouble with bots because of the invite system.

It's not obvious from browsing the site (though of course it's visible in the source: https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters/blob/791b21f60a2e952cab...) but users can lose the ability to invite if they reach a net score of -5 (rare, they have be a bad actor right out of the gate) or from a mod removing it (also rare, they typically have to invite several problem users or run a voting ring).

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very cool! Did they do a write-up? I haven't been following lobste.rs closely and some quick google searching returned a lot of unrelated content.

There's an example of the admin, pushcx, eliminating a voting ring in this part of the moderation log: https://lobste.rs/moderations/page/4 He's really good at that. I can't recall if he disclosed his methods. Most don't to avoid giving the people doing it a chance to adapt. Let them stay at low-effort attempts. :)

Nobody's ever asked, but so far it's all the obvious stuff like the invite tree, IPs, user-agents, activity limited to their own stories, etc.

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#176

One thing I noticed is that the search feature on there is far worse than HN's. Doing a side by side comparison, I have to go to the 2nd or 3rd page on Lobste.rs to get the results that I would have expected to be first.

Yep, and it's slow, too. I just deployed some code to improve it last week and we've got some more in the pipeline. In the meantime, a Google search with `site:lobste.rs` is probably more effective.

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#177
(I'm the Lobsters admin.)

I think "better" is too reductive a framing for comparing things as broad and deep as online communities. There's no single dimension to judge quality on, and it's largely a matter of personal taste. I appreciate the praise but this post feels like a missed opportunity for a really valuable conversation about how design features have shaped these two sites (to say nothing of the dozens of others they draw inspiration from). In short: https://lobste.rs/s/bxuqzy/why_lobste_rs_is_better_than_hack...

Couple previous takes when we've been mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21453180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21947299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20892064

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#178
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. Indeed sometimes the most insightful comments here come from one time use anonymous/throwaway accounts.

That just indicates people are so worried about loosing their reputation on their main account that they resort to throwaway account for projecting their views thats just sad.

Not true. Sometimes it's whistleblowers and people who rather not have their identity doxxed in case they end up fired at . Sometimes people want to share extra info about their startup but w/out divulging who it is... where as their REAL profile has all their personal data so you can easily figure that stuff out.

There's plenty of reasons for throwaways besides just being 'nefarious'.

Re: Why Lobste.rs Is Better Than Hacker News

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laughable to compare the obsessive curation of music on what.cd with any of those platforms, not to mention the fidelity and the vast range, far exceeding what’s available on the other platforms.

If your "music discovery plummeted" after an illegal copyright infringer was taken down a decade ago, I seriously question your commitment to music. In the years that went by since what.cd, you never found new ways to discover music? Oh kay. More like you just liked stealing from creative professionals.

>you never found new ways to discover music?

Yes. But they are nowhere close to the ways you could discover with it. Spotify's playlists doesn't even compare.

>Oh kay. More like you just liked stealing from creative professionals.

Ofc.

In fact, there are studies that show that piracy helps the industry. And I bet the biggest winners are the creators themselves, as they are the ones that profit the most from exposure. Musicians get more more from concerts than albuns sales.

Post reply on HN