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David Rosenhan’s fraudulent Thud experiment set back psychiatry for decades

spectator.co.uk

1–10 of 127 posts

Re: David Rosenhan’s fraudulent Thud experiment set back psychiatry for decades

#3
This is the first time I'm hearing that it was a hoax from the start. I've heard this study referenced more times than I can count in discussions on mental illness and mental hospitals. Could it really be that it was complete horseshit?

Re: David Rosenhan’s fraudulent Thud experiment set back psychiatry for decades

#4
While this is fascinating and I'm glad to have read it, it doesn't substantiate that this experiment set back psychiatry. The fact that the DSM-IV was prompted or encouraged by the experiment is suggested, but there's no argument for it. Even beyond that, the article doesn't even hint at an argument that the DSM-IV set back psychiatry (except offering the bare assertion that reductionism is false).

Of course, the DSM is very controversial, and many people could fill in the argument, but this article doesn't do it.

Re: David Rosenhan’s fraudulent Thud experiment set back psychiatry for decades

#6

This is the first time I'm hearing that it was a hoax from the start. I've heard this study referenced more times than I can count in discussions on mental illness and mental hospitals. Could it really be that it was complete horseshit?

...yes? Hearing about something doesn't make it true.

Re: David Rosenhan’s fraudulent Thud experiment set back psychiatry for decades

#7

This is the first time I'm hearing that it was a hoax from the start. I've heard this study referenced more times than I can count in discussions on mental illness and mental hospitals. Could it really be that it was complete horseshit?

The article says the book only suggests it could have been fiction, in that no records exist that allow people's participation to be verified.

It's still entirely possible that it happened as reported, but that the (properly) confidential records were destroyed/lost.

According to Wikipedia, "'[s]he writes that she cannot be completely certain that Rosenhan cheated', despite entitling her book as she did." [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

Re: David Rosenhan’s fraudulent Thud experiment set back psychiatry for decades

#8

This is the first time I'm hearing that it was a hoax from the start. I've heard this study referenced more times than I can count in discussions on mental illness and mental hospitals. Could it really be that it was complete horseshit?

The article says the book only suggests it could have been fiction, in that no records exist that allow people's participation to be verified. It's still entirely possible that it happened as reported, but that the (properly) confidential records were destroyed/lost. According to Wikipedia, "'[s]he writes that she cannot be completely certain that Rosenhan cheated', despite entitling her book as she did." [1] [1] htt…

> It's still entirely possible that it happened as reported, but that the (properly) confidential records were destroyed/lost.

Did you read the article? This isn't possible at all.

> the distinguished psychologist Eleanor Maccoby, who was in charge of assessing Rosenhan’s tenure file, reported that she and others were deeply suspicious of him, and that they found it ‘impossible to know what he had really done, or if he had done it’, granting him tenure only because of his popularity

True, this is just circumstantial.

> At various times, Rosenhan had proffered sometimes contradictory biographical fragments about pseudo-patients 2 through to 8, but even with the assistance of a private detective, these leads led nowhere.

Hmm, it'd be hard for everything to have happened as reported, given that what was reported contradicted itself.

> In a larger sense, it scarcely matters, because Cahalan uncovered so much other evidence of Rosenhan’s malfeasance and lies.

Hmmmmmmmm...

> He claimed, for example, to have carefully coached his volunteers before sending them forth. Bill Underwood and Harry Lando emphatically denied this.

OK, now we know it didn't happen as reported even in cases where there wasn't an internal contradiction in the reporting.

> Lando appears to have been dismissed from the study, not because he violated protocol, but because, as Rosenhan incredulously noted about his confinement, ‘HE LIKES IT!’

The "throw away any data you don't like" school of research.

> Most damning of all, though, are Rosenhan’s own medical records. When he was admitted to the hospital, it was not because he simply claimed to be hearing voices but was otherwise ‘normal’.

Note that this is what he reported he had claimed.

> On the contrary, he told his psychiatrist his auditory hallucinations included the interception of radio signals and listening in to other people’s thoughts. He had tried to keep these out by putting copper over his ears, and sought admission to the hospital because it was ‘better insulated there’. For months, he reported he had been unable to work or sleep, financial difficulties had mounted and he had contemplated suicide. His speech was retarded, he grimaced and twitched, and told several staff that the world would be better off without him.

Re: David Rosenhan’s fraudulent Thud experiment set back psychiatry for decades

#9

While this is fascinating and I'm glad to have read it, it doesn't substantiate that this experiment set back psychiatry. The fact that the DSM-IV was prompted or encouraged by the experiment is suggested, but there's no argument for it. Even beyond that, the article doesn't even hint at an argument that the DSM-IV set back psychiatry (except offering the bare assertion that reductionism is false). Of course, the DSM…

This is standard fare for the source. The Spectator generally pick one of the authors' bugbears (usually Muslims, The Left, or Political Correctness Gone Mad), write a beautifully written and entertaining piece, all the time aggressively mixing and conflating fact and fiction with a slightly sneering tone. For example: https://outline.com/nMzA8N

Re: David Rosenhan’s fraudulent Thud experiment set back psychiatry for decades

#10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says the book only suggests it could have been fiction, in that no records exist that allow people's participation to be verified. It's still entirely possible that it happened as reported, but that the (properly) confidential records were destroyed/lost. According to Wikipedia, "'[s]he writes that she cannot be completely certain that Rosenhan cheated', despite entitling her book as she did." [1] [1] htt…

> It's still entirely possible that it happened as reported, but that the (properly) confidential records were destroyed/lost. Did you read the article? This isn't possible at all. > the distinguished psychologist Eleanor Maccoby, who was in charge of assessing Rosenhan’s tenure file, reported that she and others were deeply suspicious of him, and that they found it ‘impossible to know what he had really done, or if…

Not sure why you're being down voted. Maybe just tone with the 'hmmmmm' and such. Anyway, I agree that there appears to be ample evidence for this conclusion.
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