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Clayton Christensen has died

deseret.com

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Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#121

Post by tomrod »

freeopinion wrote: post #119
tomrod wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the point you're trying to make, and feel you are missing something fundamentally important. Note that the KPIs currently tracked (and consistent with history) are[0]: - People baptized and confirmed - People with a baptismal date - People who attend sacrament meeting - New people being taught Some missions track hours of community service, but typically to ensure they are kept under a cap, not maximized…

Perhaps you have missed a point or two. Of course it is the objective of fulltime proselyting missionaries to increase converts. But that is not the only purpose in having such a program filled with (let's be honest) kids. Do they learn self-discipline? How to manage their time? How to socialize with people? How to study their own religion? How to empathize with others? How to speak multiple languages? How to lead pe…

As I stated:

>> I believe you have conflated BRT with normal friendship and friendliness, which is not what BRT was used for.

I find your defense of the institutional practice to be deliberately obtuse because it focuses on the rose-colored glass elements while ignoring the negatives in an attempt to gloss over the commercialism, colonialism, and other troubling aspects of Mormon corporate policy. I'll not comment further on the matter. Thank you for engaging.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#122

Post by DanCarvajal »

rtkaratekid wrote: post #109
DanCarvajal wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist who lives in Utah, I wish r/exmormon would calm down a bit. The echo chamber groupthink there is staggering.

As an exmo, I think that sub is toxic and unhealthy and a terrible way to find balanced views. Very off topic from the article but I like to put that plug in wherever I can.

I totally get it. It's bizarre to me the way debates about any significant LDS figure or historical moment quickly becomes flooded with anti-LDS sentiment from various sources, especially r/exmo types.

And then I'm just in the corner as an atheist who has an anthropological fascination with LDS history and culture.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#123

Post by lonelappde »

DanCarvajal wrote: post #74
tomrod wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I shared your feelings before leaving Mormonism (I was heavily involved in setting up the billboard community found in r/latterdaysaints and community engagement via r/mormon several years ago). Over 100k former Mormons are there. You get the full spectrum. It offers a community to people who are kicked out of where their weekly community is no longer available (really, read their experiences sometime). A lot of peop…

As an atheist who lives in Utah, I wish r/exmormon would calm down a bit. The echo chamber groupthink there is staggering.

The rest of us feel the same way about the Church of JC of LDS.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#124

Post by lonelappde »

jjeaff wrote: post #45
tomrod wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exmormon here who has spent significant time with relatively larger names in that org. No, Clay was pretty unique in my view. With due respect to him, the tolerance of conflicting belief often portrayed by his co-adherents is typically extended as a proselytizing or marketing tactic and isn't offered to former Mormon congregants terribly often (see reddit.com/r/exmormon for thousands of documented experiences, or the…

Marketing tactic or not, if that is the behavior, that's the behavior, it's unfair to ascribe intentions and discount the behavior. There are definitely some LDS that fall into the trap of taking offense when someone leaves the religion and then don't treat that person well. They take it as a personal slight that someone else is claiming their religion is wrong. Either by actions or in words. But I have also noticed…

And yet here you are bashing vegans in a wholly unrelated thread.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#125

Post by lonelappde »

compiler-guy wrote: post #40
wahern wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many religions in the U.S. have tolerance issues with "blacks" or "women", per se. The LDS church was unique in that regard. But to be fair, that aspect seems to have been sincerely discarded. What lingers is the uncomfortable landscape it finds itself in, and given the background racial landscape in the U.S., I'm sure it'll be an especially long journey out of that wilderness.

The LDS church was not unique in that regard at all. They are just ~30 years behind the society around them. For example, they had massive problems fully accepting blacks until the seventies, which was long after most mainstream religions got over their issues. But most mainstream religions (at least the protestand ones) had all kinds of trouble themselves in the forties. The LDS church isn't unique in its problems,…

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 says that LDS wasn't more than 14 years behind the times.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#126

Post by ilikecoldbrew »

Dave_TRS wrote: post #21

Like many here I found "How Will You Measure Your Life" particularly helpful. The book was based on a letter to his students, which provides a nice summary and I keep handy to share with people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B50RBERcUJSba2Fmd2Z0VzdtZm8...

Thanks for sharing. In addition to the summary, I really liked page 8 with comments from the students.

In particular, this one stood out: "“You could see a shift happening at HBS. Money used to be number one in the job search. When you make a ton of money, you want more of it. Ironic thing. You start to forget what the drivers of happiness are and what things are really important. A lot of people on campus see money differently now. They think, ‘What’s the minimum I need to have, and what else drives my life?’ instead of ‘What’s the place where I can get the maximum of both?’”

It takes courage to buck the trend of what's normal or expected in society, and we owe great thanks to those (like Clayton) who inspire and encourage us to be courageous in this regard.

I also really liked this: "if your attitude is that only smarter people have something to teach you, your learning opportunities will be very limited. But if you have a humble eagerness to learn something from everybody, your learning opportunities will be unlimited.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#127

Post by tomheon »

I was lucky enough to meet Clay Christensen once when he came to speak at a company I worked at.

First he delivered a brilliant lecture on how companies repeatedly found themselves put out of business by new technologies, even after having made only decisions that actually increased their profits (his famous theory of "disruption").

Then he went on to talk about how easy it was as a driven, career-focused person--like most of the folks in that room--to invest too much in your career and not enough in your family. He pointed out how you can see whether your efforts in the office are paying off after a year or two, sometimes even shorter--while you don't really know whether you raised your children well for 20 years or so. Since so many smart people are addicted to feedback loops of quick success, he argued, that put them in special danger. You could easily spend year after year making choices that increased your success in your field, only to discover--too late--that you hadn't been paying enough attention to things that mattered more.

He was one of the best speakers I've heard, picking precise words and moving smoothly from topic to topic, but every once in a while he would hold up his hand, bring his fingers together as if he were gripping a pen, and then twirl his hand in a circle as if he were asking for the check. After the fourth or fifth time, he stopped and apologized. He'd had a stroke recently, he explained, and occasionally he couldn't remember the words he was trying to say unless he pretended to write them in the air.

A brilliant, humble man, whose essential goodness was impossible to miss.

May he rest in peace.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#129

Post by darksaints »

paulddraper wrote: post #91
darksaints wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former Mormon, black mormons were so rare that they were treated like celebrities.

Where did you live? The LDS Church is headquarted in Utah, and the whole state is literally 1% black. I'm a Mormon and grew up in Florida, and the LDS Church had a typical blend for a "mostly white church." (Realize that virtually every church has a clear racial majority of some kind.)

In California. There were two black families, a total of five people, in our stake with over 1000 active members.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#130

Post by Buttons840 »

bart_spoon wrote: post #55
tomrod wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exmormon here who has spent significant time with relatively larger names in that org. No, Clay was pretty unique in my view. With due respect to him, the tolerance of conflicting belief often portrayed by his co-adherents is typically extended as a proselytizing or marketing tactic and isn't offered to former Mormon congregants terribly often (see reddit.com/r/exmormon for thousands of documented experiences, or the…

I would say that r/exmormon may not be the best indication of the faith as the whole, as it is essentially the equivalent of a product review site where people with the the biggest axes to grind congregate and create bit of a bubble that is out of touch with reality, much like other subs that are essentially devoted to the dislike of or dissatisfaction with something like r/atheism, r/fuckepic, r/redpill, etc. That i…

r/mormon seems like a neutral sub. You can find believers and non-believers conversing there. All respectful posts seem to be allowed, even if critical of the church or it's beliefs.
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