Live data from Hacker News

Clayton Christensen has died

deseret.com

111–120 of 131 posts

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#113
My Sister is a member of his congregation in Boston, on a day when she was having a difficult time managing the difficulty of being a young mother of 5 while in a chapel during worship services (this happened within the last year or two) in the process of things there was a spill of things of hers into the aisle way. She shot down to the ground to try and gather up all the things now cluttering the aisle way. Of all the members of the congregation who could have stepped over to lean down and help recover the diaspora it was “Brother Christensen” who came over and, despite being in a body ravaged by age and all he’d been through, using support for mere walking. There he was putting in the genuine walk, leaning over repeatedly to help gather things for my likely frazzled and overwhelmed sister.

My sister was vaguely aware that he’d achieved some notoriety. When I went on to speak of the world wide reverberations of his work, it seemed to pale for me to the history my sister had related to me just prior of what this kind, old ‘disabled’ man had done for my sister. An act which virtually anyone else in his position would be excused for presuming that someone else could handle this ‘little’ need.

Thanks Bro Christensen for producing the rebar, the greatly undervalued acts that keep our society actually functional and bearable.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#114
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up Heartsell[0][1] sometime. Bonneville Communications is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mormon church. They attempted to sell inclusion and heartfelt feelings as a marketing strategy. They got caught the first time and it was minorly bad PR. They haven't been caught since. Note this is what the central organization does, of which most of the congregants are naive or deliberately uninformed. When I taught miss…

BRT seems like a pretty good principle. As long as it's not "BRT until you can stab" or "BRT until you have all their money" or whatever. You seem to be pointing an accusing finger at BRT. I'm guessing you may have had some experience with "BRT and they'll come around to your way of thinking." But I imagine that even those aren't usually malicious. Granted, they don't have to be malicious to be off-putting, but try t…

The goal is to get converts. It’s way more insidious when you’ve been on the inside and then got out.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with many religions, "tolerance" is a sensitive issue: blacks, women, LGBT. But yes, there is the stereotype of a humble/reserved successful Mormon businessman. (E.g. I'd put Mitt Romney in that category too)

Off topic, but FYI: the link in your bio goes to a 404 page for Rivet Health, which links to a designer template site of some sort. https://rivethealth.com/careers/

Thanks. I'll update that link.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#116

Just a random thought. why doesn't Professor Christensen run for President? He will be a perfect, wonderful President. Nice, Decent, most of all, knowledgable. His expertise is just what this country badly needed. President Clayton Christensen. How nice. People from all over the world will love and respect him.

And, he died

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BRT seems like a pretty good principle. As long as it's not "BRT until you can stab" or "BRT until you have all their money" or whatever. You seem to be pointing an accusing finger at BRT. I'm guessing you may have had some experience with "BRT and they'll come around to your way of thinking." But I imagine that even those aren't usually malicious. Granted, they don't have to be malicious to be off-putting, but try t…

The goal is to get converts. It’s way more insidious when you’ve been on the inside and then got out.

Your goal was to get converts. Lots and lots of other people have different goals. Some people have the same goal as you.

I could BRT with my work team, not just so they will all switch to my favorite PL. I could BRT with my neighbor so they might feed my goldfish while I'm on vacation. And I could mow their lawn when they're in the hospital. Not just so they'll will me their house.

I can BRT a person with the specific intent to get them to check their weight gains because they look unhealthy. That would entail a lot of judging on my part, and a lot of people would take some exception to that. But as the relationship builds, they might understand that I've seen diabetes close up and I don't want that for them. They can frankly tell me that it's none of my business and they don't fear diabetes. I could switch and warn them about heart disease. Again, none of my business and they don't care. If I keep nagging, I could destroy the relationship. That's the opposite of BRT. Let's call it BFRT, building fake relationships of trust.

Some people BFRT. Some people BGRT (build genuine relationships of trust). I'd like to believe that most Tesla fans don't BFRT with their Chevy-loving friends just so Elon can get richer. I'd like to believe that most Rust advocates don't BFRT with their C++ co-workers just to inspire a PL coup. I'd like to believe that my neighbor isn't being nice to my goldfish just to convert me to Catholicism.

Of course my Tesla friend would love me to buy a Tesla. Of course my Rust friend would like me to at least dabble. I don't see why members of a particular religion would be any different.

Now imagine that you were bad-mouthing your high school around fellow graduates. What if some of them offered to buy you a beer just to shut you up and maybe get you to lighten up. Are they BFRT? Maybe. But take the beer and say thanks. Depending on how ex-Mormon you are, that would be root beer, of course.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is to get converts. It’s way more insidious when you’ve been on the inside and then got out.

Your goal was to get converts. Lots and lots of other people have different goals. Some people have the same goal as you. I could BRT with my work team, not just so they will all switch to my favorite PL. I could BRT with my neighbor so they might feed my goldfish while I'm on vacation. And I could mow their lawn when they're in the hospital. Not just so they'll will me their house. I can BRT a person with the specif…

I understand the point you're trying to make, and feel you are missing something fundamentally important. Note that the KPIs currently tracked (and consistent with history) are[0]:

- People baptized and confirmed

- People with a baptismal date

- People who attend sacrament meeting

- New people being taught

Some missions track hours of community service, but typically to ensure they are kept under a cap, not maximized.

These are sales funnel goals given to missionaries. This unfortunately discredits your point that lots and lots of other people have different goals -- organizations track those things they care about. And the Mormon church wants to continue growing membership, as that was seen as successful during the formative years of her oligarchy.

As an employee (I suppose technically a volunteer employee) you can have any motivation for showing up you like. But that doesn't mean you have any say whatsoever in what your managers and leadership want to accomplish. And the goals your holding to a pedestal are certainly noble, but not aligned with what each of these young volunteer salespeople are being encouraged to accomplish.

I believe you have conflated BRT with normal friendship and friendliness, which is not what BRT was used for. BRT (no longer specifically called that) was step one in a commitment pattern to grow membership in the Mormon church. There is a big difference in the two, which is where I contend you're conflating -- friendliness isn't something used to sell people a lifestyle group, but BRT is.

[0] https://www.ldsdaily.com/church-lds/major-changes-to-preach-...

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#119
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your goal was to get converts. Lots and lots of other people have different goals. Some people have the same goal as you. I could BRT with my work team, not just so they will all switch to my favorite PL. I could BRT with my neighbor so they might feed my goldfish while I'm on vacation. And I could mow their lawn when they're in the hospital. Not just so they'll will me their house. I can BRT a person with the specif…

I understand the point you're trying to make, and feel you are missing something fundamentally important. Note that the KPIs currently tracked (and consistent with history) are[0]: - People baptized and confirmed - People with a baptismal date - People who attend sacrament meeting - New people being taught Some missions track hours of community service, but typically to ensure they are kept under a cap, not maximized…

Perhaps you have missed a point or two. Of course it is the objective of fulltime proselyting missionaries to increase converts.

But that is not the only purpose in having such a program filled with (let's be honest) kids. Do they learn self-discipline? How to manage their time? How to socialize with people? How to study their own religion? How to empathize with others? How to speak multiple languages? How to lead peer groups? What their religion actually believes and if and how it makes any sense? How to manage their money? How important their parents have been in their lives?

Are these things learned just for the next year or two? Or do these missionaries go back to regular life with amazing skills that they can use to be better employees, co-workers, parents, teachers, and citizens? Is BRT just to trap people into the religion? Or is it an important life practice?

If it's just a sales technique, too bad. As a life practice, it's incredibly enriching.

Re: Clayton Christensen has died

#120
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So without stereotyping too harshly, I wonder if his humility came from his faith? I've met quite a few LDS who show significant tolerance for beliefs that conflict with their own, maybe because historically Mormons have been the victims of intolerance?

Exmormon here who has spent significant time with relatively larger names in that org. No, Clay was pretty unique in my view. With due respect to him, the tolerance of conflicting belief often portrayed by his co-adherents is typically extended as a proselytizing or marketing tactic and isn't offered to former Mormon congregants terribly often (see reddit.com/r/exmormon for thousands of documented experiences, or the…

Speaking as a fellow ex-Mormon, I agree with your statements here.
Post reply on HN