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New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#91

Post by throw_54313 »

appleflaxen wrote: post #76
neffy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a perfectly valid question, although the wildlife market is equally valid on the evidence we have. We know that the Chinese Government is hugely overreacting to public information at this point in time - terrible as the published numbers are they are not that out of whack with a normal bad flu epidemic, which also causes significantly higher death rates. So it's either the actual death rates are higher (…

It seems like they are reacting too late, and under-reporting.

It seems like they are reacting just in time.

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#92

Post by throw_54313 »

moulei wrote: post #22

>I think this is just a massive overcorrection due to China's 2003 SARS outbreak but we'll start seeing more and more of these large scale quarantines as our civilization comes to terms with the realities of cheap air travel. I don't think is an "overcorrection". Lockdown is a top-level warning. Most Chinese people have no so much medical common sense, only a warning like this can stop them from trying to return home…

> Most Chinese people have no so much medical common sense

I disagree. There are no anti-vaxxers in China. I find it’s the opposite, where they often want to be over medicated.

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#93

Post by [deleted] »

DevX101 wrote: post #30

I'm bordering on conspiracy theory territory here, but I'd also like an real investigation into whether the virus actually originated from the Wuhan Biosafety Laboratory. It's the only level 4 (BSL-4 highest rating) lab in all of China designated to handle the most dangerous pathogens. And it's located 20 miles from the reported epicenter in the wildlife market. It was first opened two years ago and at the time multi…

[deleted]

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#94

Post by verroq »

CydeWeys wrote: post #85
verroq wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t that just drive it underground? Then nobody would even know where it started when the next outbreak happens.

Don't underestimate how effectively a totalitarian and surveillance state like China can be in discouraging behaviors they don't want. People aren't willing to risk their lives just to eat exotic animals. And that could be what's at stake here; witness what happened to some of the people involved in the melamine baby milk formula scandal.

Seems like they are already risking their lives eating exotic animals.

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#95

Post by cheuv »

joeyspn wrote: post #42
DevX101 wrote: post #30

I'm bordering on conspiracy theory territory here, but I'd also like an real investigation into whether the virus actually originated from the Wuhan Biosafety Laboratory. It's the only level 4 (BSL-4 highest rating) lab in all of China designated to handle the most dangerous pathogens. And it's located 20 miles from the reported epicenter in the wildlife market. It was first opened two years ago and at the time multi…

Also from Nature (2017): "Bat cave solves mystery of deadly SARS virus — and suggests new outbreak could occur" https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-07766-9 (Wuhan lab apparently carried out the research)

You forget thise one : https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debat...

The original paper is provided by virologists researchers and two of them are from Wuhan Biosafety Lab (Zhengli-Li Shi & Xing-Yi Ge)

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#96

Post by powerfoolx »

neffy wrote: post #39
DevX101 wrote: post #30

I'm bordering on conspiracy theory territory here, but I'd also like an real investigation into whether the virus actually originated from the Wuhan Biosafety Laboratory. It's the only level 4 (BSL-4 highest rating) lab in all of China designated to handle the most dangerous pathogens. And it's located 20 miles from the reported epicenter in the wildlife market. It was first opened two years ago and at the time multi…

I think it's a perfectly valid question, although the wildlife market is equally valid on the evidence we have. We know that the Chinese Government is hugely overreacting to public information at this point in time - terrible as the published numbers are they are not that out of whack with a normal bad flu epidemic, which also causes significantly higher death rates. So it's either the actual death rates are higher (…

“that even China doesn't trust China on reporting”

Will the federal gov just trust the state gov, especially when the it's a republican president versus a democrat governor? Of course not. That kind of overly abstract wording is what lead to misunderstanding of actual problems.

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#97

Post by maxerickson »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #58
nexuist wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >The former Israeli military intelligence doctor also said suspicions were raised about the Wuhan Institute of Virology when a group of Chinese virologists working in Canada improperly sent samples to China of what he said were some of the deadliest viruses on earth, including the Ebola virus. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/24/virus-hit-w...

Why is Canada sending Ebola to China?

a group of Chinese virologists working in Canada

So the question is what sort of controls are in place vs what sort of controls should be in place. It isn't Canada sending the samples, it's Canada not preventing them from being sent.

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#98

Post by api »

DevX101 wrote: post #30

I'm bordering on conspiracy theory territory here, but I'd also like an real investigation into whether the virus actually originated from the Wuhan Biosafety Laboratory. It's the only level 4 (BSL-4 highest rating) lab in all of China designated to handle the most dangerous pathogens. And it's located 20 miles from the reported epicenter in the wildlife market. It was first opened two years ago and at the time multi…

> Were experimented animals not disposed of properly?

It's not inconceivable that a few of them ended up in the wildlife market. Great way for some low-level person in the lab to make a few bucks, and according to many people I know who have spent time in China the culture of "anything for a few bucks" is even more potent than it is in the USA.

I'm sure Chinese authorities are examining this possibility, but they would never talk about it as it would be embarrassing. If anyone is found to have done this they will be in deep 船尾.

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#99

Post by [deleted] »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #63
CydeWeys wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope nobody is working on the (insanely irrational) idea of creating a super virus. There's no way in hell you could use that as a weapon of war because there's no way you could ensure it doesn't leave the target country. And even the act of trying to make one is insanely dangerous; if it accidentally gets out, which is easily possible, now you're killing all your own people. I want to say that all governmen…

There are powers definitely working on it. "Super" just doesn't mean "kills as much people as efficiently as possible". Ability to control the destruction is a crucial feature of any weapon. In the past, this perhaps meant viruses that fizzle out quickly, so they could be deployed on enemy territory. Today, with recent breakthroughs in genetic engineering, that likely means aiming for high selectivity - targeting eth…

[deleted]

Re: New coronavirus can spread between humans, but started in a wildlife market

#100

Post by dkarl »

thisistheend123 wrote: post #7

President Xi has warned that the virus is spreading. His intervention seems to be unprecedented. Is it worse than what it seems to be? They have quarantined whole cities and are building a hospital at war scale especially for this. Maybe the Chinese know something that the world doesn't know yet.

They want to prove the value of a tightly controlled society. What better occasion than an infectious disease outbreak? If they can control this outbreak successfully, they can use it as a validation of the system, and I don't doubt they will let their citizens know how many more people would have died in a poorly governed society with an improper balance of freedom and authority.
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