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Google backtracks on search results design

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Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#261

Post by thebruce87m »

Animats wrote: post #100

This may be a major event in Google's history - the point where they overdid ads and started to be perceived as a inferior service. This is sometimes called "pulling a Myspace". Myspace was once the top social network. They looked unchallengeable. Then they got greedy. Myspace kept upping their ad content until usage dropped. Instead of backing off the ads, they upped the ad content even more to maintain revenue. Usa…

I think “Pulling a Digg” is more apt. The change to digg was abrupt and user jumped ship immediately.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#262

Post by stiray »

judge2020 wrote: post #239
leereeves wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you be OK, if Google didn't show images from your site on their site? If so, I believe a simple robots.txt statement should be sufficient. Giving people a way to opt out doesn't absolve Google. They need to get permission to use the property of others, not default to using it unless told not to. They're acting as if everything that isn't locked up, and doesn't have a note on it saying otherwise, is free for a…

Letting Google crawl your page and not telling it to stop via robots.txt is implied consent, and a german court case confirmed this[0]. 0: https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/german-federal-court-rules...

Offtopic:

I am using entry page that brute forces password for accessing other pages. It takes a 30 seconds max on phone, but will raise cpu to 100%. Later it is stored to cookie. I havent seen any crawler get past that.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#263

Post by pieterk »

Invictus0 wrote: post #49
pieterk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m so sorry to hear you have such a dark outlook. I totally agree, those companies are not about the consumer anymore, but that’s fine. That’s their problem. I see computers and the internet as an extension of ourselves, and so they still allow us to communicate with whoever and whatever we want. I’m so glad this community exists and we can express that. The worst part should already be over, you just joined hn. I’m…

This brand of techno-optimism is so tired. Who today still believes the old facebook line about connecting more people? It didn't work and it enabled automated surveillance on unprecedented scale.

I love how you phrased that! I’m also tired of what’s going on. These corporations allow groups of people to compete for our attention just like individuals. Some giants we created are now getting in our way so much that people are starting to notice, and we are far from passive creatures.

It’s still possible to disconnect. It’s still possible to choose what you see or say, and it’s still possible to focus your energy on something you believe in. As long as you’re not tired of that, I‘m optimistic.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#264

Post by gundmc »

hadlock wrote: post #113
Animats wrote: post #100

This may be a major event in Google's history - the point where they overdid ads and started to be perceived as a inferior service. This is sometimes called "pulling a Myspace". Myspace was once the top social network. They looked unchallengeable. Then they got greedy. Myspace kept upping their ad content until usage dropped. Instead of backing off the ads, they upped the ad content even more to maintain revenue. Usa…

In the early 2000s we called this "Jumping the Shark"

Early 2000s? "Jumping the shark" is from the 1970s.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#265

Post by pb7 »

mattmanser wrote: post #165
Klonoar wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, if you're using DDG, you're essentially using Bing (base) + other custom engine work layered on top of it.

You don't remember correctly, this is a persistent falsehood I see repeated in all these sort of threads. https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/results/du...

https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/results/so...

“ In fact, DuckDuckGo gets its results from over four hundred sources. These include hundreds of vertical sources delivering niche Instant Answers, DuckDuckBot (our crawler) and crowd-sourced sites (like Wikipedia, stored in our answer indexes). We also of course have more traditional links in the search results, which we also source from a variety of partners, including Verizon Media (formerly Yahoo) and Bing.”

It is not false. The standard 10 links you see come directly from Bing and they don’t even attempt to hide that fact.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#266

Post by pb7 »

kitsune_ wrote: post #171
callinyouin wrote: post #43

For me it was the straw that broke the camel's back. When this change went live I decided to switch to DDG and it's been a great experience. Search results are, in my opinion, more relevant and generally of better quality. I wish I would have switched sooner!

Same here. I wonder whether the backtracking is just due to the criticism or whether they have measured an actual impact on their numbers.

The entirety of DDG’s traffic right now is a rounding error on Google’s traffic. I promise you they did not measure any sort of impact. That may change in the future but we are not there yet.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#267

Post by superasn »

Animats wrote: post #100

This may be a major event in Google's history - the point where they overdid ads and started to be perceived as a inferior service. This is sometimes called "pulling a Myspace". Myspace was once the top social network. They looked unchallengeable. Then they got greedy. Myspace kept upping their ad content until usage dropped. Instead of backing off the ads, they upped the ad content even more to maintain revenue. Usa…

The only thing in favor of Google is that so far nobody still hasn't got a better engine. Creating a Myspace clone or even a better service wasn't as hard as making a better search engine as google.

I've tried all the alternatives ddg, bing etc but the Google's results are still much better imo and as long as that is true they will keep trying such shenanigans.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#268

Post by judge2020 »

leereeves wrote: post #245
judge2020 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting Google crawl your page and not telling it to stop via robots.txt is implied consent, and a german court case confirmed this[0]. 0: https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/german-federal-court-rules...

That's not what that article says. According to that article, that decision was based on the idea that a hyperlink cannot infringe copyright, not on implied consent: > The court in Karlsruhe does not regard the display of the preview images as an act of making available a copyright work in the sense of the copyright law. ... Since the decision handed down in the “Svensson” case in 2014, it is common ground that, in p…

My bad - I was looking at a published book that referenced the case and wanted to link an article that was more easily available, but it was for the wrong case. My original comment is also uneditable now. The case I meant to reference is "Vorschaubilder I", see the press release[0]

> [translated] The plaintiff has made the content of its website accessible for search engines without making use of technical means to exclude the images of her works from the search and display by image search engines in the form of preview images.

0: http://juris.bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/rechtsprechung/doc...

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#269

Post by Invictus0 »

rapnie wrote: post #69
Invictus0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This brand of techno-optimism is so tired. Who today still believes the old facebook line about connecting more people? It didn't work and it enabled automated surveillance on unprecedented scale.

There are still many wonderful niches on the web, and by going there - while avoiding the bad stuff - we strengthen them so they don't disappear as well. As techies we have an opportunity here to bring them more to the front, by the technology choices we make and the projects we contribute to, the awareness we raise.

You're missing the factory for the dandelions growing in the parking lot. Weird niche personal pages and projects are just distractions from the massive power struggle that is being fought by corporations and governments for the minds and personal data of every human on earth.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#270

Post by OrgNet »

pieterk wrote: post #17

When will we realize that adwords and everything it inspired was a wrong turn for the internet? I’d much rather pay a monthly fee to get the services I want. I understand that Google and Facebook have gone too far down this path, and they will say such a service is not as profitable, but ultimately their business model seems unsustainable. People search for the truth, and while you can sell anybody anything, the trut…

> I’d much rather pay a monthly fee to get the services I want.

How is that possible if you never visit the same sites? That idea appears to favor the big players.

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