How much longer will we trust Google’s search results? • Hacker News Board

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#241

Post by trehalose » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 6:14 AM UTC

listenallyall wrote: post #237

SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your hard-line position that all ads are bad, always, is laughable. This doesn't seem especially civil. > If you search for "cheapest gasoline" it's not unreasonable that an ad for an electric car might be interesting. Interesting to whom? The parent comment doesn't want to see ads. So no it's not likely to be interesting in this context. > Or if you search for "Orlando hotels", an ad for generally less expensive h…

OK Mr Literal, you're saying when you search for "Las Vegas hotels" you want the results to exclude the entirety of the Strip, "Dallas football stadium" to exclude where the Cowboys play, and "American airlines reservations" to provide the web site or phone number for Delta (which is, technically, an American airline.)

Could you explain how you got this from the comment you're replying to? Are you assuming a search engine can't find things there are ads for except when serving the ads?

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#242

Post by listenallyall » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 7:29 AM UTC

Noumenon72 wrote: post #240

JoshTriplett wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many factors that might determine which search results I will want to see. Under no circumstances will those factors include "how much money did they pay the search engine". By definition, that can only change my search results to something less aligned with what I want.

Not at all! The positive sum game here goes * Company creates thing people like you want to buy. * Company knows if you know about the thing, you will want to buy it. * Company knows you don't know whether a thing like their thing even exists, so you have no reason to search hard for it. * Company upfronts the money to defray your search costs, knowing it will be paid back when you buy the thing. This is called adver…

I used to buy hand tools at Lowe's, Home Depot, or occasionally Autozone if it was car-related. One day I saw a search result ad for Harbor Freight. Had heard the name, never knew they were a tools shop. I've joked to friends that discovery was life-changing. (for reasons, compare prices on just about anything, a good example would be a 1.5 ton floor jack)

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#243

Post by tylerl » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

"You should not trust them because they show ads that are easily mistaken for legitimate content!"

... Declared the news site, in a paragraph sandwiched between two ads carefully disguised to look like legitimate content...

You can debate about whether you believe the message, but there's no reasonable argument that you should believe the messenger.

WTF, journalism. Seriously.

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#244

Post by listenallyall » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 7:53 AM UTC

trehalose wrote: post #241

listenallyall wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK Mr Literal, you're saying when you search for "Las Vegas hotels" you want the results to exclude the entirety of the Strip, "Dallas football stadium" to exclude where the Cowboys play, and "American airlines reservations" to provide the web site or phone number for Delta (which is, technically, an American airline.)

Could you explain how you got this from the comment you're replying to? Are you assuming a search engine can't find things there are ads for except when serving the ads?

Please check a map. It's an "annoyance" to SquishyPanda23 when he doesn't get a precisely literal result. If Kissimmee != Orlando, then Strip hotels != Las Vegas (they are all in unincorporated Clark County, NV) and AT&T Stadium != Dallas (it's in Arlington, and the old Texas Stadium is in Irving).

But, hey, he's absolutely entitled to live his life ignorant about viable options.

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#245

Post by feanaro » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

oehpr wrote: post #200

feanaro wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen an internet ad in years due to using uBlock Origin with very strict block lists. I feel like I find products and services I need effortlessly. Am I missing something?

Yes. We are discussing googles advertising, and the strategic decisions it forces on companies operating within googles context. And in my post more generally, how that same game plays out in wider society, and with the general public We are not discussing your personal advertising experience. Nor even the general technocratic audience of HN's advertising experience.

I'm aware the overall discussion was not about my personal preferences, so it should hopefully be clear this is not what I was asking.

The context (set by the OP of this branch) is also that perhaps there is a case of perverse incentives going on, one where we have reached an unhealthy, but relatively stable equilibrium of the majority having the impression of needing Google ads where there would be no such need if they didn't exist.

You responded by saying the majority would indeed confirm that they would not want to be left without ads (an unsubstantiated but plausible claim). But there are clearly people who choose to opt out of ads completely, myself included, and I don't see myself as missing out on anything. So I'm asking whether I am missing out on something.

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#246

Post by fbrep » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 10:01 AM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #172

jborichevskiy wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the same. And it wouldn't be unprecedented: WSJ: Facebook Overestimated Key Video Metric for Two Years (2016) https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-overestimated-key-vide...

Well even a company of exemplary moral character like Facebook might make a simple mistake every now and then.

Such upstanding member of the community!

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#247

Post by cousin_it » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 10:20 AM UTC

listenallyall wrote: post #244

trehalose wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain how you got this from the comment you're replying to? Are you assuming a search engine can't find things there are ads for except when serving the ads?

Please check a map. It's an "annoyance" to SquishyPanda23 when he doesn't get a precisely literal result. If Kissimmee != Orlando, then Strip hotels != Las Vegas (they are all in unincorporated Clark County, NV) and AT&T Stadium != Dallas (it's in Arlington, and the old Texas Stadium is in Irving). But, hey, he's absolutely entitled to live his life ignorant about viable options.

You can be in favor of the search engine making the best guess to what you wanted, but still consider ads worse than search results. The reason is that ads aren't optimized only for relevancy, but for relevancy multiplied by commission. When an advertiser pays more per click, their ads will show on less relevant searches. If that effect didn't exist, I think people would be more ok with ads.

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#248

Post by listenallyall » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 11:01 AM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #247

listenallyall wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please check a map. It's an "annoyance" to SquishyPanda23 when he doesn't get a precisely literal result. If Kissimmee != Orlando, then Strip hotels != Las Vegas (they are all in unincorporated Clark County, NV) and AT&T Stadium != Dallas (it's in Arlington, and the old Texas Stadium is in Irving). But, hey, he's absolutely entitled to live his life ignorant about viable options.

You can be in favor of the search engine making the best guess to what you wanted, but still consider ads worse than search results. The reason is that ads aren't optimized only for relevancy, but for relevancy multiplied by commission. When an advertiser pays more per click, their ads will show on less relevant searches. If that effect didn't exist, I think people would be more ok with ads.

I've never claimed that ads are better than search results. I'm only stating that some ads, in certain contexts or situations, do provide positive value. 'Grawprog' summed up his comment by stating "they're all shit," and I disagreed and gave examples of when they might offer positive value.

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#249

Post by sparaker » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 1:02 PM UTC

1. Google search ads look like search results. While they used to not allow website owners to make their content look like their text ads. 2. Uber shows the rate (and eventually charges) for the maximum possible route from any two locations, when the actual route is generally smaller than that. 3. Amazon charges Import Fee Deposit based on a calculation and when less than that is actually charged, they don't refund it, unless someone actually asks them to.

It seems that world has fallen prey to the mindset, "Screw customer experience, let's extort the maximum amount of money we can."

Technology companies are no longer in the business of making things easier, instead they are in the business of making the most amount of money they can, while not loosing their business entirely. If these companies actually valued the consumer/customer in the past, they've certainly moved beyond that point.

Re: How much longer will we trust Google’s search results?

#250

Post by anoncake » Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

_fh5n wrote: post #233

I don't understand why we get daily articles about Google ads on HN's front page. Install an adblocker, problem solved.

For us, yes. Not for the average user that we, being the experts here, have a certain responsibility for.

Besides adblocking is a bit of a cludge.