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How to Read Self-Help

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Re: How to Read Self-Help

#31

Post by jborichevskiy »

Psyladine wrote: post #26
jborichevskiy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that longer books are almost a natural spaced repetition system for ingesting content? While I agree many 300-page books can be compressed into 10-20 pages of high density summary, I can't help but wonder if the length of a book almost ensures we spend a minimum length of time playing with/thinking about/considering the idea being presented. And that for certain books, the typical time it would take to re…

>Could it be that longer books are almost a natural spaced repetition system for ingesting content? I might buy the 'fiber' argument as it were, if it weren't for literature's existing power to convey in compact form already. Aesop seems miles ahead of the modern self-help crowd here; if anything, there's something about couching information in metaphor that makes it particularly satisfying to digest, which is why we…

I do like your fiber analogy.

I wholeheartedly agree metaphors are a multiplier to information transfer, but I can't say I've seen a deep dive into the psychology of why beyond simple literature class reasons.

My guess is when given a metaphor our brains just don't have to do as much work to frame the concept and understand it, and retention is better as it's condensed.

Re: How to Read Self-Help

#33

Post by lsinger »

jborichevskiy wrote: post #25
jordanpg wrote: post #6

My main objection to these types of books is how overly verbose they tend to be. With a few exceptions, this category of book is built around a nucleus of few possibly valuable pearls of wisdom , and then 300 pages of filler is added. Usually lots of anecdotes ("Let me tell you about my friend Alice..."), checklists, and needless exposition. If this really is wisdom , it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to com…

Could it be that longer books are almost a natural spaced repetition system for ingesting content? While I agree many 300-page books can be compressed into 10-20 pages of high density summary, I can't help but wonder if the length of a book almost ensures we spend a minimum length of time playing with/thinking about/considering the idea being presented. And that for certain books, the typical time it would take to re…

It’s a relatively known piece of “wisdom” from storytelling:

“The more specific we are, the more universal something can become. Life is in the details. If you generalize, it doesn't resonate. The specificity of it is what resonates.” [https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/jacqueline_woodson_882873]

You can repeat a generalization over and over again. It sounds right — but it doesn’t stick. You can’t translate it into your own practice. You learn the words, but not the intuition.

Telling concrete stories helps us learn the intuition, too.

Re: How to Read Self-Help

#34

Post by ravenstine »

Our culture and our algorithms value quantity. It's the same reason why so many YouTube videos are now mostly fluff. We assume a video greater than 20 minutes or a book that's over 100 pages is worth something. But a simple essay or booklet can be worth their weight in gold.

Re: How to Read Self-Help

#35

Post by amurthy1 »

munificent wrote: post #12

The article says that good self-help that leads to wisdom is obvious but hard to imply. The natural corollary of that is that you probably already have the necessary wisdom in your head (because it's obvious). And thus, if you're debating between spending two hours reading a self-help book and spending those two hours doing basically anything else, the latter is likely the better choice because there is at least some…

Just because something is obvious once shown to you doesn't mean it was immediately present in your mind beforehand, so being made aware of it can still be valuable.

But agree that there's diminishing returns from these insights and focusing more on the specific details of your life is usually more impactful.

Re: How to Read Self-Help

#36

Post by blueyes »

In my opinion, the medium is the problem. It's easy to read advice. It's hard to know how to apply general advice to a concrete situation. For that, you need to be in a live conversation with someone wise or knowledgeable.

Re: How to Read Self-Help

#37

Post by zentiggr »

ahoka wrote: post #19
kristianc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this really is wisdom, it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to communicate. But I suppose the propounders have to make a living somehow. The article makes the point that the wisdom really does take much longer to communicate - a nugget of wisdom like ‘accept yourself’ seems trite when taken alone, but the examples (presumably filling the other 300 pages) are what makes the advice actually sink in.

The Enchiridion is like 60 pages and contains the wisdom a lifetime.

And many read it and can't digest it, let alone put it into practice.

A couple of very capable people I know can hear the story of something that happened to someone, and they get glazed eyes and can only say "Huh?" Then I rephrase it as "Imagine you were _______ and then _____ happened and afterward you were _____" and they're like "Well why didn't you just say that?"

Or the exact opposite.

Or like me. Give me an anecdote about something and I'll "Huh, interesting." Tell me about the reason you found it interesting, and I'm way more interested and engaged. Relate it to an event in my own life and now you've got me. But don't ever try to frame it that way for my wife, she'll get bored after the first five words.

It's not the message, it's what the listener gets from it.

Re: How to Read Self-Help

#38

Post by gowld »

jointpdf wrote: post #18
jordanpg wrote: post #6

My main objection to these types of books is how overly verbose they tend to be. With a few exceptions, this category of book is built around a nucleus of few possibly valuable pearls of wisdom , and then 300 pages of filler is added. Usually lots of anecdotes ("Let me tell you about my friend Alice..."), checklists, and needless exposition. If this really is wisdom , it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to com…

I have a couple of books that are something between self-help and neuroscience/psychology that I can recommend. They are a more scientific and evidence-based lens on many of the same themes as self-help books (resilience, confidence, acceptance, etc), and they contain concrete exercises and summaries. They might appeal to people who are allergic to woo: - Buddha’s Brain: The Practical Neuroscience of Happiness, Love,…

Woo dressed up in technical language and p-values is still woo.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

Re: How to Read Self-Help

#40

Post by nitwit005 »

jordanpg wrote: post #6

My main objection to these types of books is how overly verbose they tend to be. With a few exceptions, this category of book is built around a nucleus of few possibly valuable pearls of wisdom , and then 300 pages of filler is added. Usually lots of anecdotes ("Let me tell you about my friend Alice..."), checklists, and needless exposition. If this really is wisdom , it does not follow that it takes 300 pages to com…

I suspect it's often just the reality of the market.

If theaters refuse to show films under an hour in length, every film will be at least an hour, even if a shorter film would have been better.

In a world where people go to bookstores to buy self help stuff, people who want to publish something about self help are going to have to write books.

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