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Google backtracks on search results design

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Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#31

Post by 3xblah »

userbinator wrote: post #4

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22107823 Does this mean they'll also "backtrack" on their destruction of the URL? I was extremely disturbed and horrified when I realised that not only did they replace / with >, but also seemed to arbitrarily remove and rewrite pieces of URLs shown in the results (e.g. all articles from HM would show nothing more than "news.ycombinator.com > item", which was…

This and the other stuff described in these discussions relies on Javascript, CSS or certain HTTP headers.

If the results are requested with a simpler HTTP client that does not automatically execute Javascript or CSS, where we can control te HTTP headers, then these manipulations can easily be sidestepped.

This is not "blocking". It is using a client that does not process JS or CSS, where we can easily control the headers sent. This can be done, e.g., with openssl s_client, obsd nc, socat, etc.

They are probably sending different html+css+js based on user-agent.

They have been doing that for many years. The difference this time is people are objecting to the look of what they are sending.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#33

Post by dredmorbius »

saghm wrote: post #28
dredmorbius wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes: you cannot DIRECTLY edit the URL in the navbar. Nor, for that matter, can you click, ctrl-A (yes, Virginia, I have and use a Bluetooth keyboard). Instead it's click, then Copy Icon. Utterly blinkered. Oddly: Incognito mode is not (yet) crippled in this manner. Don't get me started on pull-to-nuke-whatever-you'd-been-composing-or-losing-your-place-in-infernal-scroll

> yes, Virginia, I have and use a Bluetooth clipboard I'm assuming from context that your mean keyboard, but the idea sounds kind of cool so I have to ask: any chance this is a term for a a bluetooth device solely designed to facilitate copy-pasting between other devices?

Yes, thanks, edited.

For cross-device control, there's ... Synergy, I think:

https://symless.com/synergy

There's an Android client (I've no experience with it): https://sourceforge.net/projects/synergyandroid/

On the Android, there's Termux which offers a clipboard interface -- termux-clipboard-get and termux-clipboard-set which I've aliased as "xp" and "xc" respectively. (I have similar aliases for Linux and MacOS's respective clipboard manipulators.)

You can paste (including to remote SSH sessions) with the ctrl-alt-v keystroke.

It's possibly to select and copy screen regions, but tediously, so that piping to / from xc / xp is far more convenient. (I sometimes use this for composing / editing HN comments, more frequently on other sites.)

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#34

Post by pieterk »

t223 wrote: post #22
pieterk wrote: post #17

When will we realize that adwords and everything it inspired was a wrong turn for the internet? I’d much rather pay a monthly fee to get the services I want. I understand that Google and Facebook have gone too far down this path, and they will say such a service is not as profitable, but ultimately their business model seems unsustainable. People search for the truth, and while you can sell anybody anything, the trut…

I’m not willing to pay anything. The internet was built on good will, fun, and generally good intent. Now that it’s a mechanism of commerce it’s attracted the worst of the worst who have no ethics. Ethics courses will be taught in response to bad actors, not in anticipation of. I’m aware the cats out of the bag and all of the high paid engineers need to make a living somehow. I just don’t think it’s about the consume…

I’m so sorry to hear you have such a dark outlook. I totally agree, those companies are not about the consumer anymore, but that’s fine. That’s their problem.

I see computers and the internet as an extension of ourselves, and so they still allow us to communicate with whoever and whatever we want. I’m so glad this community exists and we can express that.

The worst part should already be over, you just joined hn. I’m also all about good will, fun, and generally good intent. And if you do something cool but it’s costing you something, let me know how I can chip in.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#35

Post by [deleted] »

3xblah wrote: post #31
userbinator wrote: post #4

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22107823 Does this mean they'll also "backtrack" on their destruction of the URL? I was extremely disturbed and horrified when I realised that not only did they replace / with >, but also seemed to arbitrarily remove and rewrite pieces of URLs shown in the results (e.g. all articles from HM would show nothing more than "news.ycombinator.com > item", which was…

This and the other stuff described in these discussions relies on Javascript, CSS or certain HTTP headers. If the results are requested with a simpler HTTP client that does not automatically execute Javascript or CSS, where we can control te HTTP headers, then these manipulations can easily be sidestepped. This is not "blocking". It is using a client that does not process JS or CSS, where we can easily control the he…

[deleted]

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#36

Post by ehsankia »

userbinator wrote: post #4

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22107823 Does this mean they'll also "backtrack" on their destruction of the URL? I was extremely disturbed and horrified when I realised that not only did they replace / with >, but also seemed to arbitrarily remove and rewrite pieces of URLs shown in the results (e.g. all articles from HM would show nothing more than "news.ycombinator.com > item", which was…

Calling it "backtracking" feels strange. They still want to put favicons in there, but as pointed out, the positioning is misleading since it's in the same spot as the "ad" icon. They will most likely just move it to another more unique position.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#38

Post by svnpenn »

3xblah wrote: post #31
userbinator wrote: post #4

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22107823 Does this mean they'll also "backtrack" on their destruction of the URL? I was extremely disturbed and horrified when I realised that not only did they replace / with >, but also seemed to arbitrarily remove and rewrite pieces of URLs shown in the results (e.g. all articles from HM would show nothing more than "news.ycombinator.com > item", which was…

This and the other stuff described in these discussions relies on Javascript, CSS or certain HTTP headers. If the results are requested with a simpler HTTP client that does not automatically execute Javascript or CSS, where we can control te HTTP headers, then these manipulations can easily be sidestepped. This is not "blocking". It is using a client that does not process JS or CSS, where we can easily control the he…

Blocking 3rd-party scripts, 1st-party scripts and even inline scripts doesnt do what you say it does.

It not as easy as you say it is, theyre using server side scripts to mangle the URLs.

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#39

Post by monadic2 »

t223 wrote: post #22
pieterk wrote: post #17

When will we realize that adwords and everything it inspired was a wrong turn for the internet? I’d much rather pay a monthly fee to get the services I want. I understand that Google and Facebook have gone too far down this path, and they will say such a service is not as profitable, but ultimately their business model seems unsustainable. People search for the truth, and while you can sell anybody anything, the trut…

I’m not willing to pay anything. The internet was built on good will, fun, and generally good intent. Now that it’s a mechanism of commerce it’s attracted the worst of the worst who have no ethics. Ethics courses will be taught in response to bad actors, not in anticipation of. I’m aware the cats out of the bag and all of the high paid engineers need to make a living somehow. I just don’t think it’s about the consume…

I would definitely pay, but not through a middleman like google. We need to return to a decentralized, peer to peer internet where media companies are not beholden to advertisers (a very old problem). Technology presents the first real chance to implement this. A non-trivial part of the media’s (eg newspapers, news sites, cable news) is due to advertising, including “cancel culture” itself (the name dates back to pressuring advertisers to pressure media to cancel tv production, although the word has gained life of its own).

Re: Google backtracks on search results design

#40

Post by gwittel »

ehsankia wrote: post #36
userbinator wrote: post #4

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22107823 Does this mean they'll also "backtrack" on their destruction of the URL? I was extremely disturbed and horrified when I realised that not only did they replace / with >, but also seemed to arbitrarily remove and rewrite pieces of URLs shown in the results (e.g. all articles from HM would show nothing more than "news.ycombinator.com > item", which was…

Calling it "backtracking" feels strange. They still want to put favicons in there, but as pointed out, the positioning is misleading since it's in the same spot as the "ad" icon. They will most likely just move it to another more unique position.

Favicon display seems rife for abuse. I wonder what happens if you put a favicon that looks like googles’ or that says “ad”. All sorts of fun to encourage clicks onto a malicious site because it looks safe.
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