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Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

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Re: Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But we have prima facie evidence that advanced civilizations -- as advanced as we're about to be, in not very much longer -- are very rare.

Finding life on other planets means life was probably seeded on earth instead of the 'Spontanous Generation' theory of biology where RNA just happened on earth at some point. It also opens up the possibilities of life existing outside of earth. I don't know whats not mind blowing about that.

As a biologist, it's pretty cool, although not quite as cool because it's the same life. Different life, evolved on different planets, would be cooler. It would use some of the same tools, like phosphates as signaling/energy molecules, because nothing else can do the job. But alien life could use different amino acids from the ones we use, or something different from amino acids instead. They would probably be linear polymers of related monomers though. The same goes for DNA: different base units probably, but still a linear polymer, and very possibly a helix (lots of things are helices).

But the problem with all these instances of life is that all but n of them have to get snuffed out before they've developed much further than we are, and so far as we know n has to be either 1 or 0.

Re: Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

#42

> Thanks to Curiosity, we have a better idea of where water existed (and may still exist) on Mars, as well as where we might be able to find evidence of ancient life. I don't understand why everyone is so excited about finding life on Mars. Life on Mars means life may be relatively common on water-bearing planets, which means the Filter is more likely to ahead of us than behind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhhvQ…

It will be very exciting to learn how life on Mars is different or similar to life on Earth. It would teach us what are might be fundamental blocks of life, and what is optional or can be "implemented" differently. It might bring us closer to understand beginnings of life.

Even if we find that life on Mars has common roots with life on Earth, it will be gives us new perspective on early life forms plus we will learn that lifeforms could survive interplanetary trips without special protections.

Re: Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

#43
post #39

> Thanks to Curiosity, we have a better idea of where water existed (and may still exist) on Mars, as well as where we might be able to find evidence of ancient life. I don't understand why everyone is so excited about finding life on Mars. Life on Mars means life may be relatively common on water-bearing planets, which means the Filter is more likely to ahead of us than behind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhhvQ…

there's no reason the Great Filter couldn't be both ahead and behind us. - Life on planets with fossil fuels available advances to an industrial phase and dies off either from nuclear war or global warming - Life on planets without fossil fuels never advances to even the iron age.

You're right that fossil fuels are contingent. They exist because of a big evolutionary coincidence that might not be repeated on other worlds.

It's possible, though, that aliens might not need fossil fuels to get to space. If they had more efficient photosynthesis, for example (ours is Or it's possible that we're the most advanced because fossil fuels are necessary and nobody else got them.

Re: Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

#44

> Thanks to Curiosity, we have a better idea of where water existed (and may still exist) on Mars, as well as where we might be able to find evidence of ancient life. I don't understand why everyone is so excited about finding life on Mars. Life on Mars means life may be relatively common on water-bearing planets, which means the Filter is more likely to ahead of us than behind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhhvQ…

If the life we find on Mars isn't DNA-based, but something entirely different, it would suggest that DNA-based life may be unique to Earth, and that every planet hosting life will likely be fundamentally unique.

That's pretty much the only reason I get excited about finding life on other planets.

Re: Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

#45

> Thanks to Curiosity, we have a better idea of where water existed (and may still exist) on Mars, as well as where we might be able to find evidence of ancient life. I don't understand why everyone is so excited about finding life on Mars. Life on Mars means life may be relatively common on water-bearing planets, which means the Filter is more likely to ahead of us than behind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNhhvQ…

Sort of. Life on Mars would provide an instance of life AND filter, since that life has not progressed over billions of years and is likely extinct. And that filter would be very likely behind us, given life on mars was very likely more primitive than it is on Earth.

Re: Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

#47
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's no reason the Great Filter couldn't be both ahead and behind us. - Life on planets with fossil fuels available advances to an industrial phase and dies off either from nuclear war or global warming - Life on planets without fossil fuels never advances to even the iron age.

You're right that fossil fuels are contingent. They exist because of a big evolutionary coincidence that might not be repeated on other worlds. It's possible, though, that aliens might not need fossil fuels to get to space. If they had more efficient photosynthesis, for example (ours is Or it's possible that we're the most advanced because fossil fuels are necessary and nobody else got them.

How efficient would these plants need to be?

Re: Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

#48
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's no reason the Great Filter couldn't be both ahead and behind us. - Life on planets with fossil fuels available advances to an industrial phase and dies off either from nuclear war or global warming - Life on planets without fossil fuels never advances to even the iron age.

You're right that fossil fuels are contingent. They exist because of a big evolutionary coincidence that might not be repeated on other worlds. It's possible, though, that aliens might not need fossil fuels to get to space. If they had more efficient photosynthesis, for example (ours is Or it's possible that we're the most advanced because fossil fuels are necessary and nobody else got them.

Wait, can you elaborate on that? Cursory glance at google suggests there can be sufficient other sources of hydrocarbons aside from dinosaurs being wiped out by a meteor.

Re: Mars rover is frozen in place following software error

#50
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the programmers blame the engineers, and the engineers blame the programmers

When Einstein worked on nuclear bomb the saying was: If he fails French will say he's American, Americans will say he's German, and Germans will say he's Jew. If he succeed Germans will say he's German, Americans will say he's American, and French will say he belongs to the world.

Einstein didn't work on the nuclear bomb at all. According to https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/einstein/peace-and-war/the-..., he wrote that famous letter to Roosevelt and was later denied the necessary security clearance.
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