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Who wants to play the status game?

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Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#141

Post by rglover »

saiya-jin wrote: post #40
code4tee wrote: post #37

Status only matters if the other party cares about it. The ultimate status game is truly showing that you don’t care that the other person is X, has done X, their dad/uncle is X, wants you to think X but rather are dealing with the person in front of you right then and there and what they are able to bring to the table at that time. The reverse is incredibly powerful too. Those that have been most impressive to me th…

This mindset brings such a peace of mind. You can't impress me with anything payable in money, empty statements, family credentials etc. Only your actions define your relationship with me. If you mess it up, I will act with you accordingly. If I will consider you a bad influence to my kid, you 2 will simply not meet, even if you would be his grandparent. To make things even easier, I apply this to absolutely everybod…

Much respect for this point of view.

I've recently adopted a similar stance on relationships and while it's irked some folks, it's made life incredibly peaceful. No drama, no manipulation, just spending time with folks who are great company and discarding the rest.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#142

Post by dickjocke »

willemlabu wrote: post #63

I once attended a talk by a man who was head of a creative marketing agency. He also had a side gig of being a presentation consultant. I forget his name and agency, but I don't think I could forget what he said. He would lead his company's pitches to new clients, and would turn up to the presentation wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops; tattoos all over his arms and neck, and thereby set the expectations of th…

I don't meant to be whiny but it's interesting how ineffective this would be for certain groups of people. Imagine a woman showing up in sweatpants and no makeup or a black guy wearing basketball shorts, white socks and Nike slides.

I understand that every room of people is different, and that some might react the exact same way to all three, but I'm skeptical.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#143

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

toasterlovin wrote: post #110
kerkeslager wrote: post #75

> It is much easier to mock others for engaging in the Importance Game and the Leveling Game than to acknowledge one is doing it. And it's critical to realize: mocking others for engaging in the Importance Game and the Leveling Game is just a way of engaging in the Importance Game. This is an even stranger game than Nuclear War: it sometimes seems that the only winning move is not to play, but not to play isn't reall…

> And it's critical to realize: mocking others for engaging in the Importance Game and the Leveling Game is just a way of engaging in the Importance Game. I grew up in Los Angeles and now live in Portland, OR. People in LA play the status game rather brazenly and are roundly mocked for it. But the exact same game is played by everyone doing the mocking here in Portland. Except, instead of buying luxury automobiles an…

I question whether the described Portland approach is actually subtler. Is it actually? It's definitely more meta. It's definitely less resource-intensive. But in my experience there's nothing subtle about sour grapes.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#144

Post by Gimpei »

I struggle a bit with pieces like this because I genuinely am not trying to establish or gauge another person's status when I first meet them. And I really don't think I'm in denial on this. Outside of a business context, it doesn't feel all that important, nor does it feel in any way clear cut. What qualifies as higher status anyway? It's going to vary based on idiosyncratic values whether you are more impressed by a painter or a CEO or an academic or an activist or a caregiver etc.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#145

Post by cousin_it »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #139
cousin_it wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade is the opposite of a zero-sum status game: it creates gains and shares them among participants. (Gains from trade exist whenever Alice and Bob have different rates of exchange between good X and good Y.) Success in trade doesn't come from being better than others and making them less successful, it comes from trading with others and making them more successful.

How do you reconcile corporate software sales with that world view? Trade is entirely predicated upon status and status is only partially predicated upon trade.

> Trade is entirely predicated upon status

I think that's way overstated. As an outsourcer in Moscow working for Western companies, I got plenty of gains from trade, despite having lower status than Western folks. And remember how China took over world trade while being so low status that "made in China" was a joke?

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#146

Post by lukifer »

cousin_it wrote: post #114

Status sucks. The greatest invention of civilization is trade, which makes status obsolete. In a society that upholds property rights of everyone, even the lowest can get ahead without being seen as superior or excellent. Just offer something that other people want to have, and ask for a little money in return. The result of that process - that a low-status-looking, fat, filthy, cowardly trader ends up driving a BMW…

While I'm sympathetic to your view (status feels very "high school", and in some ways profoundly boring), I'd like to make a case for The Good Parts of status (as well it's bottom-up cousin, "prestige" [0]).

I can't remember where I read it (probably also Simler?), but I love the aphorism that "honor can sometimes buy gold, but gold can never buy honor". In addition to the fungible, zero-sum-ish resource economy, there is also a parallel non-zero-sum reputation economy. While this can sometimes be meritless and lacking in positive externalities (Instagram influencers, "being famous for being famous"), it can also manifest in incentivizing pro-social behavior (community contributions, GitHub stars).

Just as the same market mechanisms underlie both the good and bad parts of capitalism (wealth creation vs. rent-seeking), the motivation to climb status hierarchies and earn reputation is a double-edged sword, sometimes resulting in good behavior (competition to be the most cooperative), and sometimes in leveraging status exploitatively or even harmfully (searching for a term here; status arbitrage? status market failure?).

[0] https://meltingasphalt.com/social-status-down-the-rabbit-hol...

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#147

Post by ahi »

Of course this is written by an academic. Most of the rewards and penalties of academia are status related. No one besides the football coach is making private sector money, and no one gets fired for anything less than a felony. There are large portions of the ivory tower that do nothing more than burnish the self-importance of other status seekers; armies of Associate Dean of Innovative Circle Jerks attending pointless conferences.

This is largely unavoidable in large organizations. As another article recently posted here described, it's a natural consequence of hierarchical layers never interacting with people doing the work (the bottom) or the people ultimately accountable (the top).

The real danger comes when status seeking culture overwhelms the organization as it has a tendency to be infectious. Status becomes the currency as well method of getting ahead. "Surely I am entitled to this position of importance and compensation. I am not full of shit for if I was, I would not deserve this position of importance and compensation." Actual competence and efficacy are existential threats to these people, so they further reward those below them who excel stroking their ego and bullshitting.

No, not everyone is trying to establish status in every interaction. In polite company we call those people shitheads. Shitheads have a tendency to believe everyone else is also a shithead. Some of us are actually trying to get things done, and play their silly games only because it gets them out of our office.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#148

Post by CalRobert »

pfarrell wrote: post #120
RookyNumbas wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. There isn't one game, there are infinitely many, and different people will have success at different games. But there is also the meta-game: The game of being able to win the highest variety and largest amount of different games. I think this meta-game is closest to what we think of as status.

IMO, the sooner you learn this, the better you can try to understand other people’s journies and the better yours becomes. That whole being rich versus being wealthy thing. Also, after more than a year, I just lost the game.

The game! The game. The game you lose when you think about the game.

I hadn't thought about that since college, which is far longer ago than I care to say.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#149

Post by antisthenes »

willemlabu wrote: post #63

I once attended a talk by a man who was head of a creative marketing agency. He also had a side gig of being a presentation consultant. I forget his name and agency, but I don't think I could forget what he said. He would lead his company's pitches to new clients, and would turn up to the presentation wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops; tattoos all over his arms and neck, and thereby set the expectations of th…

> In his words: it had varied success.

I mean, he was head of a marketing agency, which in itself already implies a certain level of success (that many people can only aspire to). Seeing as how he was a consultant on the side too, I'm assuming that he's done okay for himself.

Perhaps he was judging himself too harshly. You're not going to win 100% of prospective clients anyway, so it's easy to interpret that as varied success, instead of just success that lets you keep going.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#150

Post by pdonis »

leftyted wrote: post #125
cousin_it wrote: post #114

Status sucks. The greatest invention of civilization is trade, which makes status obsolete. In a society that upholds property rights of everyone, even the lowest can get ahead without being seen as superior or excellent. Just offer something that other people want to have, and ask for a little money in return. The result of that process - that a low-status-looking, fat, filthy, cowardly trader ends up driving a BMW…

> The greatest invention of civilization is trade, which makes status obsolete. In a society that upholds property rights of everyone, even low-status "omegas" can get ahead without ever being seen as superior or excellent. Just offer something that other people want to have, and ask for a little money in return. "Trade" doesn't let you escape status. "Omegas" who get ahead by being smart are competing for status and…

> Humans have built all this stuff because we have been able to invent arbitrary status games.

No, humans have built all this stuff because it provides value to more and more people. Time spent on status games is time not spent doing something productive.

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