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Who wants to play the status game?

thepointmag.com

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Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#91

> but we also need an aspirational target at the top, so as to inspire us to excellence, creativity and accomplishment. Why do we need this? Is the author suggesting that without an externally provided target, none shall be inspired? The status game is inherent to all socially cooperative creatures. It's not a morality thing; it's an evolutionary thing. It's nothing we can legislate or moralize or shame away; all you…

This is a good analysis, going to the core of the issue.but:

>> all you can do is push it underground (as in, "I'm so important that I don't even need to play" or "I disdain all who play, and am therefore superior to the rabble who do"), which doesn't solve anything.

It's possible to teach people humility.

And it's not pushing it underground - It's a good social skill to have if you want to collaborate with other people.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#92

I once attended a talk by a man who was head of a creative marketing agency. He also had a side gig of being a presentation consultant. I forget his name and agency, but I don't think I could forget what he said. He would lead his company's pitches to new clients, and would turn up to the presentation wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops; tattoos all over his arms and neck, and thereby set the expectations of th…

thats interesting. Consider a scenario of a guy with proper attire vs this guy. If the guy with proper attire did the same level of presentation as this guy, who have the probability to "win the clients"

He explained it as a rudimentary scale from 1 to 10.

Expectations for him starts at a 3, and might rise to 8. Someone well dressed, might start at a 6 and rise to 8.

The difference is, well, what makes the difference.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#93
post #19

Another "more advanced game" is the collaboration game. In this game, the players determine their common ground. The players evaluate each other and think, "Hey this person seems to be good at X and knows a lot about Y. I know a lot about Z. Maybe we can join forces." They then identify common goals that they can work on together. I don't know about most people, but I'm definitely more interested in playing the colla…

> I don't know about most people, but I'm definitely more interested in playing the collaboration game. And, I tend to overlook people who aren't into it.

Hm, but the way you're describing it, that's just the Importance Game. All you're doing is measuring someone's importance based on their intent to play the Collaboration Game.

Don't get me wrong, I think that's one of the best forms of the Importance Game, because it sort of approximates the Collaboration Game. But I think you can do better at the Collaboration Game by acknowledging that the Importance Game is unavoidable, and that you're playing it.

First, I think you're overestimating the importance of other people's intentions. Even if someone's intent is to play the Importance Game, not the Collaboration Game, you can still collaborate with them. You just have to figure out how to get them to collaborate: either by playing the Importance Game or by playing the Leveling Game. If you only collaborate with people who are trying to play the Collaboration Game, you're missing out on most opportunities to collaborate--that's a losing strategy in the Collaboration Game.

Second, I think you have to view mastering the Importance Game and Leveling Game as necessary prerequisites to mastering the Collaboration Game. This is the only way to actually step outside the Importance and Leveling Games: if you pretend you don't have to play them, you just play them unconsciously and they control your behavior. Instead, if you learn to play these games consciously, you can chose to play them when they are appropriate tools for winning in the Collaboration Game.

This is, of course, easier said than done. I don't buy that human political organization is fundamentally hierarchical, but I think that there are deeply-ingrained evolutionary mechanisms in humans that make it very hard for us to avoid viewing others and ourselves hierarchically.

A final note: the Collaboration Game still isn't the ultimate game: collaboration is only useful toward a goal, and that begs the question: what goal? That's a deeply personal question, and the Collaboration Game becomes dissatisfying if you are collaborating toward other people's goals, and never achieving your own goals. The Collaboration Game, if you focus on it too far, is called codependency. In short: the Collaboration Game is still just a sub-game in the Self-Actualization Game.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#94
Reminds me of something I read in Impro (recommended by someone on HN, and a readable-if-totally-anecdotal collection of writings on status): a marker of friendship is the ability to deliberately and enjoyably play status games.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#95
I find myself playing the Leveling Game with cleaners, drivers, etc. and talking about the football team or similar. But it also feels the most preening kind of status assertion — like Harvard grads telling you they went to school “in Boston.” The worst offender is Warren Buffett, whose self professed lifestyle of a $100K house and McDonalds which is just a way of saying “I’m so superior to you that the granite countertops and Michelin restaurants you lust over and will never afford are so meaningless to my amazingly enlightened soul that I could have them for free and don’t bother.”

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#96
post #83

I get the sense that the conflict the author describes is a problem in American culture, because most of us want to believe in a classless society, yet at the same time, class is everywhere. I feel in many cultures it's far more explicit and tolerated. You know who your "betters" are. In America, you'd never acknowledge that. I'm not saying that a rigid social hierarchy would be better -- but our approach to society…

In Dutch society there is a saying "Act normal, then you are crazy enough". Showing ones wealth and status is not done and seen as flashy and arrogant, something to be ashamed of really. Edit: Good examples of where this leads to is the Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte visiting the King by bike [0] or cleaning up his own spilled coffee by himself [1] while the cleaners are watching. [0] https://www.cyclingweekly.com/n…

As someone who really admires Dutch culture, I would just add that in my experience "you are crazy enough" is more true in the Netherlands than elsewhere ;) It's probably not for nothing that such a small country has had such an outsized impact on the history of Science and Technology...

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#97
post #43

My undergrad was a super nerdy school grinding largely solo in the CS lab. Later I did an MBA program to take me completely out of my comfort zone. I gravitated to those who were chill, and perplexed anyone who tried to play the Status Game by losing on purpose. If it was the chess equivalent, I fall into Fool's Mate on move 2. Unfortunately, there ARE times when it helps to be able to quickly convey to new acquainta…

> there ARE times when it helps to be able to quickly convey to new acquaintances that you are legitimate

There was a thread on HN about shibboleths. It was kicked off by someone who pointed out that tech support took them seriously and skipped the basic "have you tried turning it off and on" steps when they saw XCode was installed.

https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1201003855770607618

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#98

I get the sense that the conflict the author describes is a problem in American culture, because most of us want to believe in a classless society, yet at the same time, class is everywhere. I feel in many cultures it's far more explicit and tolerated. You know who your "betters" are. In America, you'd never acknowledge that. I'm not saying that a rigid social hierarchy would be better -- but our approach to society…

In China, for instance, your annual income is a common get-to-know-you type question, right along with where you’re from

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#99

I once attended a talk by a man who was head of a creative marketing agency. He also had a side gig of being a presentation consultant. I forget his name and agency, but I don't think I could forget what he said. He would lead his company's pitches to new clients, and would turn up to the presentation wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops; tattoos all over his arms and neck, and thereby set the expectations of th…

> Setting expectations low, and then making them feel foolish for misjudging you. It's a risky game. People tend to make their first impressions within seconds, and then spend the rest of the time looking for evidence to validate that assumption.

Not really. As a shy person, I've been playing it my whole life. For some reason, people meet me and assume... I dunno, that I'm just someone who can be swept aside. I let them believe that.

But I'm a lot more capable than people give me credit for being, and I'll be honest, a part of me enjoys it when that realization starts to set in.

It's not really a machiavellian ploy on my part to optimize some kind of social outcome, just a pattern I've settled into. It's fine for most aspects of my life. Good for poker games with strangers. Bad for first dates and FAANG-style job interviews, where I excessively downplay my abilities.

However, I think generally in life you shouldn't try to "be" anything except healthier and kinder. You were given a role in life, and it is up to you to play it to your best ability. I'm paraphrasing Kurt Vonnegut, I think, when I say be careful who you pretend to be -- because that might be the person you become.

Consciously playing social games is foolish. What you really want in life is inside of you. Strive to be better, not to find artificial ways to dominate others.

Re: Who wants to play the status game?

#100

I once attended a talk by a man who was head of a creative marketing agency. He also had a side gig of being a presentation consultant. I forget his name and agency, but I don't think I could forget what he said. He would lead his company's pitches to new clients, and would turn up to the presentation wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops; tattoos all over his arms and neck, and thereby set the expectations of th…

I would not suggest this if your career/love life/opportunity depends on it.
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