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23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

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Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#311

Post by thrwaway69 »

celticmusic wrote: post #269
cubano wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that statistically, over a large sample size, that the chances that either would abuse information is exactly equal.

I don't know that I'd say it's exactly equal, but the idea that any typical individual really has much say over the Federal Governments decisions is laughable. Even if it were your local town, city, or county government managing it, do you think they're going to fight the federal government if they ask for access to it? Over you, a nobody, when the Federal Government is going to threaten to withhold money for whateve…

This is why we need smaller countries in any democracy.

Anything too big isn't democratic as much as political spending, alluring promises (that will be broken), campaigning, making the others look more evil than you, etc etc

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#312

Post by thaumaturgy »

hi41 wrote: post #217
fetus8 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, there's the fact that companies like this also provide your data to DNA databases that governments and other companies have access too. That seems like a good reason to shy away from getting their tests done.

I sent a saliva swab and got my dna analyzed by 23andme. I got back information I already knew such as where I came from etc. Serious question. IF the government catches a relative of mine who is a rapist or a murderer from my dna, I don’t see anything wrong with it. Could someone please explain what could go wrong. Keeping our community from heinous criminals is a good thing isn’t?

Forensic genealogy isn't perfect. There are a few different kinds of DNA tests and comparisons, and some of those are better than others, and which one is used and how the DNA is collected and the interpretation of the results is still left up to human beings with badges, so it's still error-prone. This has led to people being wrongly accused, and even convicted, of serious crimes:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/genetic-genealogy-can-h...

https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convict...

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dna-ancestry-kits-twins-m...

The problem here is that DNA evidence is currently considered infallible by law enforcement and jurors, so very nearly no amount of contradictory evidence will get you off the hook if a DNA test matches you to a cold case.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#313

Post by rainyMammoth »

Trias11 wrote: post #190

Stop monetizing me without compensating me. Stop [ab]using me without my concent. Be forthcoming and willing to establish win-win relationship with me instead of sneaking out my stuff and monetizing my stuff without disclosing what are you doing with my stuff and without compensating me.

In this case you paid (199$!) for the privilege of having your data monetized.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#314

Post by brigandish »

JohnFen wrote: post #228
brigandish wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which form of abstract grouping of people is the most trustworthy?

The group that you have some sort of actual say in how they operate. That usually means the government, not a private business.

You can buy shares that give you voting rights in a company, and you can decide to spend (or not) your money with a company. The latter is not available to you with the government and has been shown, I would argue, to have a greater effect over a company than voting in a democracy, and that's as an individual. Maybe that's comparable with picking parties to vote for but it's not quite the same.

I wouldn't trust either form over the other though, and if anything, I'd want their incentives to be set up so they were mostly in opposition so as to limit the power of each other.

If I was to pick an abstract group to trust, it surely would be family first.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#315

Post by rurp »

mbreese wrote: post #260
Legogris wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Court..? AFAIK insurance companies in the US are free to model and quote you as they wish with the information they can legally get

Actually, they are expressly prohibited from using your genetic information to make decisions about your coverage. It's the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA) [1], where: > ... health insurers may not use genetic information to make eligibility, coverage, underwriting or premium-setting decisions. However, it doesn't apply to all insurance: > It does not cover long-term care insurance, life insurance, o…

This is good, but also leads to the obvious follow up question of how stringently it has and will be enforced. It's also illegal to lose PII and credit info for millions of people but, well, here we are.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#316

Post by ta999999171 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #129
nradov wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008 (GINA) specifically prohibits health insurance companies from denying coverage or setting rates based on such tests.

You are correct but a major challenge of our time today and the near future is to see whether the rule of law still works against political or financial power. From the 2008 financial crisis onward, there is a growing public sense that the powerful cannot be held subject to justice any more. I have to say that I personally would never purchase a DNA testing kit for this reason. On the social and political trajectory…

> there is a growing public sense that the powerful cannot be held subject to justice any more.

Wrong. Not that they cannot.

Just that they ARE not. That only lasts for so long until people are fed up.

Then, reset.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#317

Post by tropo »

mc32 wrote: post #81
jsgo wrote: post #79

> Wojcicki has theories Think the obvious one is that the results are shared and whether someone is a criminal or not (or will be one in the future), people are not particularly comfortable with sharing to parties they didn't initially trust it to for the purposes they trusted it for. Anecdotally, I bought a 23andme kit (just the genealogy one) but never submitted it because the labeling was to send it to the lab in…

Exactly. Many people naively thought that it was going to be positive. Build your family tree, get better ancestry information. Even finding family relations can be fraught with issues like illegitimate children, sperm donors who thought they’d remain anonymous, secret affairs now outed and then there is the other health data aspect...

Some of those are evil secrets. Cheaters ought to be exposed. Living a lie is a terrible way to live.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#318

Post by hi41 »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #312
hi41 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sent a saliva swab and got my dna analyzed by 23andme. I got back information I already knew such as where I came from etc. Serious question. IF the government catches a relative of mine who is a rapist or a murderer from my dna, I don’t see anything wrong with it. Could someone please explain what could go wrong. Keeping our community from heinous criminals is a good thing isn’t?

Forensic genealogy isn't perfect. There are a few different kinds of DNA tests and comparisons, and some of those are better than others, and which one is used and how the DNA is collected and the interpretation of the results is still left up to human beings with badges, so it's still error-prone. This has led to people being wrongly accused, and even convicted, of serious crimes: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/scienc…

Thank you for your well researched response. That answered my question.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#319

Post by ta999999171 »

endorphone wrote: post #72
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just that, but when you read about them, they pretty much host their data on law enforcement hardware. Not that I think the Golden State Killer should be on the lam, but it's kind of concerning that a person with whom you share a great-grandparent with can put you in a police dragnet.

This keeps coming up by people who are seemingly confusing 23andme with GedMatch. They are very different platforms, and even the latter has greatly changed their law enforcement policies. 23andme requires a warrant. They publish a transparency report and since 2015 they've gotten a grand total of 7. Having said that, if my DNA catches a distant relative who commits severe crimes, that hardly discourages me. As an as…

> you think the people who do genetic ancestry are idiots.

I've seen anonymous but redacted proof-bearing confessions from people these companies saying they "fuck with pure white people" by throwing in random ethnicities, so...at minimum, not all of them respect the integrity of their work.

Which shouldn't surprise anyone, due to...them being humans.

Re: 23andMe lays off 100 people as DNA test sales decline

#320

Post by cortesoft »

johntiger1 wrote: post #193
evv555 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I definitely would not submit my kids to the same fate. You already have since your DNA is out there in a database.

That's not exactly how DNA works. Their kids should be mostly fine (99.99% similar is still night and day)

If they get a sample from the kid, they will be able to say with certainty that the commenter is the parent.

They wouldn't be able to tell the difference between kids of the same gender, but if you only have one kid or a boy and a girl, they would be able to pick out the kid.

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