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Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

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Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#51

Post by ASalazarMX »

patrickmay wrote: post #42
latencyloser wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on what opinion they pull out, I might tweak that and suggest: "What's the argument against that opinion?" From what I've seen, a lot of people can rattle off reasons they've heard for why a particular thing is done, but have not deeply considered the opposite side of that opinion and what its benefits may be. Ymmv.

One of my favorite interview questions is "What is your favorite programming language and what would you change about it if you could?" Any answer along the lines of "I wouldn't really change anything." shows a lack of either experience or willingness to think about your tools.

Or it could be a sign of pragmatism, or having the freedom to choose your tools.

Why wish your tool changed instead of focusing on using it, or something better suited, to produce things?

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#52

Post by downerending »

In programming, when someone talks about lines of code they've written as an accomplishment (more is better). For those in the know, they're a liability. Solving the problem is the accomplishment.

More generally, the right answer to almost any question in software is: It depends. (That is, it depends on the usually large set of explicit and implicit, technical and non-technical requirements.)

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#53

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jakevoytko wrote: post #9

In software engineering, I think "unconditional faith in a single technique or technology" is a good sign of overconfidence in one's knowledge or ability. This certainly applied to me when I was younger. Engineers who go all-in on a specific technique will have really inconsistent results: some projects will go amazing because the technique was the best option. Some projects won't go so great because the technique wa…

> unconditional faith in a single technique or technology

Or language (but I suspect that you might count language as included in "technique or technology").

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#54

Post by xwdv »

ben509 wrote: post #47
xwdv wrote: post #2

What is the best ORM?

Not a great question for the stated purpose. Some people will dig in to the various tradeoffs involved with an ORM, and pick apart the structure of an ORM. And that should result in an "it depends" kind of answer. Others are more interested in how a team is going to use an ORM; does it help junior devs write "not awful" code, how does it help me structure my application logic. Others are stats nerds who will tell you…

The competent person will say all ORMs are garbage.

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#55

Post by Gunax »

ben509 wrote: post #29

Sigh. DK, as commonly cited, is not simply "competence." It hypothesizes a meta-cognitive bias whereby a person who is incompetent is cognitively incapable of determining their level of competence. Everyone has biases, and the reason citing DK may come across the wrong way is it tends to suggest that it's just Other People who have those biases. From this piece[1] arguing that we routinely misinterpret DK: > I suspec…

I am not sure I understand. It sounds like DK claim that assessing one's own competence is difficult (perhaps impossible).

I don't see how that conflicts with the title. It is asking for a test that can assess one's rough ability.

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#56

Post by [deleted] »

xwdv wrote: post #54
ben509 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a great question for the stated purpose. Some people will dig in to the various tradeoffs involved with an ORM, and pick apart the structure of an ORM. And that should result in an "it depends" kind of answer. Others are more interested in how a team is going to use an ORM; does it help junior devs write "not awful" code, how does it help me structure my application logic. Others are stats nerds who will tell you…

The competent person will say all ORMs are garbage.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#57

Post by Mike8435 »

xwdv wrote: post #54
ben509 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a great question for the stated purpose. Some people will dig in to the various tradeoffs involved with an ORM, and pick apart the structure of an ORM. And that should result in an "it depends" kind of answer. Others are more interested in how a team is going to use an ORM; does it help junior devs write "not awful" code, how does it help me structure my application logic. Others are stats nerds who will tell you…

The competent person will say all ORMs are garbage.

Simplistic "No True Scotsman" bullshit. ORMs provide type safety, ease of refactoring, and reduce a lot of boilerplate. Of course, occasionally you need to bypass an ORM to write complex queries, which is fine. ORMs are not perfect, but are a very useful tool nonetheless.

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#58

Post by flukus »

beefield wrote: post #5

Don't know about questions, but there are couple of answers I have learned to be serious red flags: 1. Yes, I understand. (with no further elaboration or clarifying questions) 2. It's okay/good/going well (again, with no further elaboration when asking how something is going/set up etc) First one typically translates to something between "I have a completely unfounded illusion of understanding" and "I have no clue bu…

> First one typically translates to something between "I have a completely unfounded illusion of understanding" and "I have no clue but don't dare to say it"

You didn't mentions the industry so maybe you're in an environment where you spoon feed everyone, but for me it translates "yes I understand the goal and the vague outline, let me go away and dig into the details, then I can ask good questions".

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#59

Post by karmakaze »

jakevoytko wrote: post #9

In software engineering, I think "unconditional faith in a single technique or technology" is a good sign of overconfidence in one's knowledge or ability. This certainly applied to me when I was younger. Engineers who go all-in on a specific technique will have really inconsistent results: some projects will go amazing because the technique was the best option. Some projects won't go so great because the technique wa…

This can be generalized to any sort of black and white thinking. Often characterized by thinking or asking "What's the best..." Often they arrive at such a conclusion through a shallow or second-hand evaluation. I do my research and the best I come up with are 'default' tools which are what I'd use before knowing any specifics which may override them.

Re: Ask HN: What would the Dunning-Kruger “test” be for your field?

#60

Post by karmakaze »

wikiman wrote: post #35
jawns wrote: post #28

Dunning-Kruger separating mid- and senior-level devs: JUNIOR DEV: My code is simple and easy to understand. MID-LEVEL DEV: My code is subtle, clever, innovative, expressive, hyper-optimized, and ingenious. SENIOR DEV: My code is simple and easy to understand. -- Source: John Arundel, https://twitter.com/bitfield/status/1219174978748370945 But take that for what it's worth: https://twitter.com/bitfield/status/11847410…

At one job we actually had to give up on take-home challenges basically because a good, humble junior was indistinguishable from a good, clearly-thinking senior

So funny. This makes sense as the latter would be catering to an audience which includes the former.
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