ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#221

Post by rtikulit » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:54 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #61

Be careful with the stimulants -- I say this not as a value judgment but because they can have cognitive side effects that impair your ability to understand you're having those side effects. Even when they work well there will be some collateral damage with stimulants. I was a great employee on them, but I was a shitty, narcissistic friend. The focus many people get from stimulants is an inward focus, which makes it…

I have the opposite experience. I am formally diagnosed with ADHD, none of my friends would dispute the diagnosis. When I am on stimulants (Vyvanse and Dex) I have a ton more patience and emotional equilibrium. I pay attention to other people longer and more deeply... aka empathy. I can sustain an outward focus without distraction. When I am off meds I am distracted by my own free-running cognitive and emotional processes, and I have to spend effort looking inward to manage them.

I have had no temptation to abuse the stimulants. I don't really enjoy them, on the balance, but they make an incredible difference that meditation, high quality diet and physical activity can't even begin to approach. They really calm me down.

My wife prefers me medicated. I'm apparently nicer, more patient, more even-tempered and easier to get along with.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#222

Post by filoleg » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:54 PM UTC

ninjakeyboard wrote: post #57

bnjms wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, I get that "lifestyle changes" could help No. Just don't entertain this idea. You can go 20 years since the first time someone told you you may be ADHD or depressed with subsequent diagnoses. Then tell yourself it's all in behavior no one needs drugs. But twenty years on you'll still find yourself in the same cyclical patterns of periodic depression or chronic inability to select your attention to a task. "Lif…

Yeah I'm 36 getting a diagnosis/script now and it took an incredible amount of distress to finally get me to the doctor.

There is definitely a lot of internalized shame/pressure when it comes to ADHD diagnosis and seeing a specialist. I have been diagnosed and prescribed since many years ago, but I still feel the distress and get anxious every time I am forced to switch a provider due to life events (nothing dramatic; usually just either to me moving states or my provider moving states, which is exactly what happened with my most recent one).

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#223

Post by IIAOPSW » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #4

vslira wrote: post #2

About getting treatment: it's extremely irritating that some people judge using Ritalin is somehow morally wrong. Yes, I get that "lifestyle changes" could help, but I don't want to change my lifestyle. Imagine if there was a pill to reduce risk of cardiac arrest, with some increased risk of something relatively minor. Can you imagine the uproar if cardiologists denied prescribing the pill, instead forcing people to…

There's another weird factor. Ritalin is an upper and it's stigmatized to take an upper - either your performance, judged by coworkers, will be equivalent or below theirs and the stimulant is seen as the only thing keeping you in your job (which can get super depressing internally) - or, if you're doing well in your position, it can breed internal and external doubt as to whether your performance would just be normal…

Replace "upper" with "caffeine" and the absurdity becomes apparent.

"either your performance, judged by coworkers, will be equivalent or below theirs and the stimulant is seen as the only thing keeping you in your job (which can get super depressing internally) - or, if you're doing well in your position, it can breed internal and external doubt as to whether your performance would just be normal and is being boosted by the caffeine."

the difference between them lies only in the degree of effectiveness. I dream that within my lifetime uppers will be as de stigmatized as weed.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#224

Post by vonseel » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

yonaguska wrote: post #215

vonseel wrote: post #47

I’m 31 and have ADHD (diagnosed in my teens) and I’m pretty sure NOBODY with ADHD is going to have the wherewithal to read this entire article! Unless it happens to magically coincide with their hyper-focus topic of the moment! In all seriousness, I skimmed parts of the article and kept scrolling and it just kept going and going and going... like the Energizer bunny. I guess the author found a doctor to prescribe sti…

I'm very fortunate that I learned how to read at a very very young age. As such, I'm an incredibly fast reader, when reading for comprehension, I'm close to 700 wpm. So reading to me is easy bc I can read faster than my mind can get distracted. I think that's the hardest part of ADHD, you'll always find some exceptions to the "rules" used to diagnose it.

Hmm, I have no idea what my wpm measure is, but I've never been able to identify with the perception of ADHD being something only low-IQ kids have. People I know with ADHD-symptoms are typically bright and creative, above-average humans.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#225

Post by callesgg » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

wahern wrote: post #190

callesgg wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD has no known causal model. It is not a singular thing. Downs syndrome as a counter example has a known messurabe causal model. It is truth, regardless if it is offensive or not. Regardless of your interpretation.

It's not a useful truth, at least not in the way you've characterized it. The way you characterize it says more about a misunderstanding of scientific knowledge in general, but especially medical science. Age 10 is roughly when children begin to realize that their parents, and adults in general, can be as fallible and ignorant as children. It can be a shocking revelation, but eventually you move past it. But some peo…

    It's not a useful truth, at least not in the way you've characterized it.

It think it is much more useful to think of things as they are rather than as what they are not. In this example:

I think it is more useful to think "what is causing my ADHD behaviour?" Rather than using the explanatory model "I am behaving like this because of ADHD."

The former can lead to finding models that allows one to mitigate ADHD behaviour. The later leads to the same thing over and over.

Are you hinting that I stoped developing as a ten year old?

I get that people expect that. Don't see why it matters in this context.

I guessed that was the case when I wrote about downs syndrome. Lets hope we find good causal models for ADHD to.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#226

Post by eigenvalue » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

joshlittle wrote: post #186

Everything in this article is correct, at least for me. I got fired for performance at my last job about 2.75 years ago. The first two years of working there I had great performance reviews, things went well. It was a high performing YC-backed success story, and I felt just as successful. I was promoted to Lead QA Engineer, and oversaw several projects going at once that I was interested in. About two years in, it st…

It sounds like you need to come up with a plan. But in order for any plan to be successful, you should do whatever you can to get your hands on Adderall so that you can be organized and diligent in following your plan (and even with coming up with a reasonable plan in the first place). It's pretty easy to get a prescription-- you can literally just describe various symptoms of ADHD and talk about how you keep experiencing them. Just don't directly mention anything about drugs or ADHD. If the doctor/psychiatrist won't prescribe it to you, then just go to another. It shouldn't take long to find one who will give it to you. If you don't have insurance then try to find one that will let you pay out of pocket. Once you are back on meds you should probably ease your way back into technical work. You might consider taking freelance gigs on Upwork or something, even at low rates, just to get back into the swing of things. Often these gigs can turn into consistent remote working opportunities. Once you are back into the mode of doing technical work on a routine basis, start applying to jobs. Look at the "who is hiring?" threads here on HN. Also, try going to tech meetups for things that you are interested (e.g., Node, Python, etc.) as a way to network. You probably shouldn't tell your whole story to potential employers. Instead, you can say that you felt burned out from overwork and decided to take it easy for a while and focus on yourself. Now that you've rested, you are ready to work again. If you managed to get hired and promoted at a good startup there is absolutely no reason you can't again. You are certainly living in the right place for it, which gives you a huge leg up versus 98% of the coders in the world!

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#227

Post by marsrover » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #191

marsrover wrote: post #175

I was diagnosed with ADHD at 19 after being a C student my entire life. I was prescribed Adderall and immediately became an A student overnight. It's actually weird how well it worked. Unfortunately, like others have said, it isn't a cure-all. It felt like a crutch and as my tolerance went up the less effective it was. Long story short, I ended up discovering marijuana and quit taking my Adderall. Marijuana also made…

> marijuana May I ask: which strain do you use? I've been treating my ADHD with (sparing, irregular use of) the main stimulants, which has worked fairly well. I've only used cannabis a couple of times, and each time I rather hated how it made me feel.

I don't have a particular strain, just whatever my dealer has in stock (illegal state), but I haven't really noticed a difference in ability to study in the different strains I have gotten.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#228

Post by bananamerica » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

vslira wrote: post #2

About getting treatment: it's extremely irritating that some people judge using Ritalin is somehow morally wrong. Yes, I get that "lifestyle changes" could help, but I don't want to change my lifestyle. Imagine if there was a pill to reduce risk of cardiac arrest, with some increased risk of something relatively minor. Can you imagine the uproar if cardiologists denied prescribing the pill, instead forcing people to…

I said that before about antidepressants: I wish psychiatric medications were as magical as many neurotypicals think.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#229

Post by samuelmtimbo » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

I offer you my genuine personal point of view.

ADHD people are incredibly creative! They are those whose brain naturally refuses to conform to "what is not fun", in the words of the author. This feeling is right behind Artistry itself! Your mind is trying to say something very important.

I advise you to invest in finding what your flow is. For a moment think the way your brain works is a gift of the universe and things like Distraction, Hyperactivity and Never Ending Stream of Thoughts might in turn be confused with Graph Exploitation, Mind Stamina and Infinite Power of Association.

How can you take the most utility out of your "condition"? By using it as a tool for Creative Expression. We are all blessed to have so many options to do that. Fall in love with a project - something you care about so much you will likely be always motivated by it.

The System is totally broken. Many know that. Companies should see ADHD collaborators as a unique and rare kind of Problem Solvers and work hard to make sure their gift is well exploited. The full equation has got many parameters, but a good starting question is "how can we design an environment where my ADHD (or any other condition) can give their absolute best?".

Personally, I like to use my abilities thinking about The Future of Technology and expressing those thoughts through Software Development. If you vibe with that, message me. I would very much want to be your friend.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#230

Post by rubyn00bie » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #196

rubyn00bie wrote: post #188

I was somewhat recently diagnosed with ADD and the diagnosis has truly changed my life. I, for the first time, in roughly 12 years of writing software professionally, am able finish a project enough to open source it-- and I am days away from being able to do so. It feels insanely good. Like something I've only dreamed of as silly as that is, and I don't even care if folks use it (it's not that good), but it's the fa…

May I ask what treatment is working for you?

I'm happy to share, mental health carries a stigma and it should fucking not... it was really hard for me to seek treatment, I thought about it for years, but the social stigmas [1] kept me from seeking help.

At first, I was given anti-depressants, because if you're very depressed sometimes things like starting/stopping projects is difficult (looks like ADD/ADHD). Also, most ADD medicine is heavily regulated; so, they pretty much put you through a gamut to make sure it's what's actually yer problem. At first this sort of felt like they weren't listening to me, but I do appreciate it now reflecting back (mostly because most health care professionals do want to help you, if you're in a bad place mentally though, it can be hard to realize).

I was at the time suffering pretty horrible depression due to a very bad couple of years; so, it made sense, and it helped my mood-- I didn't feel hopeless but it didn't really resolve my underlying stress of never being able to focus or finish anything (which was pretty deeply affecting me because I wanted to contribute more to my team, or rather more steadily).

After two or three months on anti-depressants, and checking in monthly, I was prescribed a pretty small dosage of Adderall; though, if my insurance was better for mental health I would have tried Vyvanse (I think is what its called). Since the dosage was low after about the first week or so, it would kind of wear off after like four hours... So, after the first month I asked to have it doubled and have been at that dosage since with no issues or complaints been about eight months now.

I've read and hear about a lot of people who sort of have enhanced ADD on drugs like Adderall and I haven't really experienced that at all, with the exception of a couple of days I was battling a lot of sadness. Which is why I think my mental healthcare provider did a really great job addressing it (my depression) first; so, that my ADD could actually be treated.

[1] It's really shitty to have mental health issues because almost everyone tells you to: try "diet X," that you have some bad habit, or that you don't do "Y or Z." If you had a physical injury though, no one is going to say "stop eating sugar to fix it." It's not that some diet, exercise , etc might be helpful, just like it would be to prevent a physical injury), sure... thanks hindsight-man.

By doing that what you're telling someone is: that their problems are completely within their control, that they are to blame, and it's their fault because they're choosing this for themselves. When in truth they cannot control it and should not feel blame or inadequacy for it.

Over the years to treat my ADD I tried:

1. Gluten free

2. Exercise

3. Keto

4. Smoking Weed

5. Not Smoking Weed (went a year without it, didn't help, actually made my ADD worse and I got fat(ter))

6. Vitamins of all fucking kinds

7. Cutting coffee/caffeine out

8. Steady sleep schedule

9. Various other weird "natural" shit too I'm sure

None of it helped but each thing on that list prolonged me from getting help [2].

[2] Having never suffered from that kind of depression before I can honestly say it was a heavy fog, that slowly rolled over my life, that was impossible for me to recognize until I was treated for it. If anyone else out there finds themselves angry or upset in ways that don't reflect who they feel they once were, get help, friend. Depression isn't just about being sad.