NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#81

Post by Enginerrrd » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:10 PM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #70

wongarsu wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For further context, [1] is a map of worldwide population density. Except for the Nordic countries and Spain there are no places without people. 1: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/World_po...

Wow, I had no idea the USA is so sparsely populated. As someone from a purple region on that map (having lived near Aachen and Amsterdam), I can't imagine what it's like to be more than a few minutes driving away from the nearest occupied house or named road. The most alone I've ever been was probably in a German forest and that was almost certainly still within hearing distance from other people, if not immediately…

It's a pretty interesting and important point. I think that it plays a central role in individual beliefs on politics as well:

If you live in an area of high density, people are your problems and it probably makes sense to you to generally limit their freedoms in favor of government control and general law and order.

If you live in an area of low density, you're immediate problems are generally not people, may be more survival related, and you are used to operating with MUCH greater independence, freedom, and self-reliance.

Applied to issues like gun control, government assistance programs, and taxation, it aligns pretty well.

Personally, I'm from an area where I routinely work in areas that are hours from cell reception or any form of help. I drive a big 4wd truck and a dirty 2-stroke chainsaw out of necessity. And, I carry a concealed pistol with me in the field.

This is often unfathomable to people that live in the bay area or Europe and I face criticism for my truck, for embracing individual rights to firearms, and I'm constantly faced with disdain from urban folks who like to insinuate that rural people are just stupid and ignorant. These people have never stared down a mountain lion 20 feet away, crouched and ready to pounce, lived without power or running water, nor faced a road wash-out that cut them off from civilization for weeks, or faced dozens of other situations I can recount where things like having the right to carry a loaded rifle in their truck might make a lot of sense. Nor can they understand the thin margins and lack of cash-flow people have to survive on in these places.

Very different worlds, and unfortunately it seems tough for people in different areas to acknowledge that they each have different needs.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#82

Post by scarejunba » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

stopads wrote: post #4

jxcl wrote: post #2

I have one of these beacons and take it with me most times I'm going out alone into the wilderness. I don't want to be the guy who had to cut his own arm off after it got trapped by a falling boulder. That being said, this is an interesting spin on the number. I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible…

This is really cool, I had no idea these exist and are somewhat affordable. For example: https://www.amazon.com/Resqlink-PLB-375-Personal-Locator-Buo... I'm going to pick something like this up before my next Wyoming adventure.

Almost all the reviews for these are "haven't had to use". Look at this product https://www.amazon.com/ACR-ResQLink-400-Buoyant-Personal/dp/...

13 5-star ratings - everyone should have one, I haven't had to use mine but it gives me peace of mind

1 1-star rating - gave it to my son because he jet skis. After a while it was rusted. Gave it a shot, didn't work.

Reminds me of this xkcd https://xkcd.com/937/

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#83

Post by mjevans » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:20 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #71

thaumaturgy wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in search and rescue near the Tahoe area. So far we've had good luck with beacon call-outs. The cases we've responded to have almost entirely been folks that were legitimately stuck or lost, and yes, they were somewhat under-prepared for the situation they were in, but that's just the modern reality of outdoor play and it makes no more sense to expect all recreationists to be perfectly prepared than it makes to e…

> I have heard from other SAR groups that the beacons have been a mixed bag, and they're getting too many call-outs from people who just got tired and want a ride home. It seems like charging people for the cost of the rescue would solve that problem.

How about if a judge gets to decide if they are required to be force-enrolled in to a class that teaches safety in similarly fitting situations and/or some quantity of community service from a list of activities that are fitting of rehabilitation and improving the commons.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#84

Post by dmurray » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #63

davidw wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure there are remote places in Europe There are a few, here and there, but it's just completely different. Everywhere in Italy (I lived there a number of years) there are people. It might just be a little mountain hut, or a cabin or something, but there are pretty much always other people around. Here in Oregon, I can ride my bike to places where I almost won't see other people all day.

For further context, [1] is a map of worldwide population density. Except for the Nordic countries and Spain there are no places without people. 1: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/World_po...

This is a very interesting map, but the political boundaries look wrong. Germany is shown as two countries, though they unified in 1990. But the USSR is shown post-breakup, at least looking in the Baltic, though that breakup only happened in 1991.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#85

Post by rmcpherson » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #80

AWildC182 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carry one as well. This is obviously anecdotal and may be because of the people I hang around with but everyone I know who carries also never hikes without a bunch of other standard safety kit and is very experienced. I suspect that being willing to buy a $200 beacon means you're aware enough of the risks and of what safety gear is out there to seek extra protection when possible.

At some level, I don't love the always connected idea. But if I were to do serious solo backpacking at this point (or were regularly going into remote areas by car with or without a companion), I admit it would probably be prudent for me to carry a beacon.

It’s really not always connected in the way of internet or satellite two way communication. The beacon’s are only there if you need them for emergencies and do not allow people to contact you. There are some like the Spot devices that allow 2 way text via iridium satellites, however.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#86

Post by shpongled » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:26 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #37

jxcl wrote: post #2

I have one of these beacons and take it with me most times I'm going out alone into the wilderness. I don't want to be the guy who had to cut his own arm off after it got trapped by a falling boulder. That being said, this is an interesting spin on the number. I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible…

I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible emergency, thinking that they'll just use their cell phone if anything goes wrong. This is so true. I live in the desert, and it's amazing the number of people who simply don't take the natural world seriously. The dead and rescued are almost always tourists.…

Even in San Diego, we have people get stuck and even die while out on recreational hiking trails. Some people just have no idea what they're doing outside - I see them carrying a single Dasani water bottle on a 7mi hike while I have about 4L of water on my person

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#87

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

rmcpherson wrote: post #85

ghaff wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some level, I don't love the always connected idea. But if I were to do serious solo backpacking at this point (or were regularly going into remote areas by car with or without a companion), I admit it would probably be prudent for me to carry a beacon.

It’s really not always connected in the way of internet or satellite two way communication. The beacon’s are only there if you need them for emergencies and do not allow people to contact you. There are some like the Spot devices that allow 2 way text via iridium satellites, however.

It's connected in an emergency--which is what really matters. Though TBH, I'd probably get one of the messaging devices if I got one so I could do "All going well" to people who might care especially if I were running late.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#88

Post by wongarsu » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:35 PM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #84

wongarsu wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For further context, [1] is a map of worldwide population density. Except for the Nordic countries and Spain there are no places without people. 1: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/World_po...

This is a very interesting map, but the political boundaries look wrong. Germany is shown as two countries, though they unified in 1990. But the USSR is shown post-breakup, at least looking in the Baltic, though that breakup only happened in 1991.

The map is from 1994, which helps explain the weird borders. They are still wrong, but inaccuracies in then-recent developments that are not the map's focus can be forgiven imho.

One should keep in mind that the map is 25 years old, meaning it doesn't really show the post-soviet development of Eastern Europe or the population growth of Asia and Africa. But I don't think that the distribution of "empty" (less than 10 people per square km) has changed much, so for this purpose the map is perfectly adequate.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#89

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

linsomniac wrote: post #7

in 2016 I got one of the ACR PLB-375 "ResQLink+" locator beacons. I did a bunch of research at the time, and liked this because it was $250, and required no subscription. Looks like they are $300 now. The alternatives have more features, like sending messages or two way messaging, and incoming messages, but also tend to require monthly subscription fees. Some of them now have subscriptions that you can "pause" when y…

>I like it, but in retrospect I wish I'd gotten a 2 way Iridium one, because my wife really worries when she can't get status updates. "Not getting a call from emergency services means we're ok" is not good enough. :-)

When I was leading sea kayaking trips, there was effectively a similar conundrum. The standard practice was that you were supposed to leave a float plan with someone you trusted. (Planned route, planned time of return, etc.)

But what did that mean really, especially if no one on the trip had a partner expected to move heaven and earth if something might seem wrong. You're an hour past your expected arrival and no call. Do they drive an hour or two to the expected takeout because something might be wrong? Or... wait for how long? (Especially pre-cell phone.)

In my experience float plans were something you tended to do as something of a formality and never really expected to use and sort of ignored the practicalities if things had really gone sideways.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#90

Post by biggc » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

thaumaturgy wrote: post #62

jxcl wrote: post #2

I have one of these beacons and take it with me most times I'm going out alone into the wilderness. I don't want to be the guy who had to cut his own arm off after it got trapped by a falling boulder. That being said, this is an interesting spin on the number. I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible…

I'm in search and rescue near the Tahoe area. So far we've had good luck with beacon call-outs. The cases we've responded to have almost entirely been folks that were legitimately stuck or lost, and yes, they were somewhat under-prepared for the situation they were in, but that's just the modern reality of outdoor play and it makes no more sense to expect all recreationists to be perfectly prepared than it makes to e…

> I have heard from other SAR groups that the beacons have been a mixed bag, and they're getting too many call-outs from people who just got tired and want a ride home. Those people deserve a verbal chewing-out from the local coordinator, but on balance I'd still rather everyone go out with beacons and have a good time and hit that button if they need to.

Agreed. Recognizing that you're in over your head and calling for help before a life-threatening situation is an incredibly difficult call to make. A story I've heard is of someone struggling on a trip with friends deciding not to make the call for rescue, and then falling to their deaths from an exposed part of the trail.

The other argument for calling for help when you're in over your head in a non-critical situation (e.g dehydrated and exhausted and a ways out) is that it's hopefully lower risk for the rescuers than other SAR situations.