Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

countercurrents.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 157 posts

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#31

Post by bobthepanda »

kbenson wrote: post #13
Despegar wrote: post #2

Excellent New Yorker piece about this (I submitted it to HN when it came out but it didn't get any traction): https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/09/blood-and-soil... Fascism is gaining in many parts of the world today. But the 'other' this time aren't Jews, they're Muslims.

With such a large percentage of the population of not just the country in question in the article, but also the entire world, I'm not sure they can be seen to be "the other" to the same degree as the Jews were, given how common they are. In 1933, there were an estimated 15 million Jews worldwide[1], 9 million or so in Europe. In Germany, with the largest Jewish population, they accounted for less than 1% of the popul…

Jews weren't a small population of some European countries' population: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland

> One-fifth of the Polish population perished during World War II; the 3,000,000 Polish Jews murdered in The Holocaust, who constituted 90% of Polish Jewry, made up half of all Poles killed during the war.[15][16]

Given that Germany at the time had an official policy of expanding into its neighboring countries, some with very high Jewish populations, your statement is at best misleading.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#32

Post by Despegar »

kbenson wrote: post #13
Despegar wrote: post #2

Excellent New Yorker piece about this (I submitted it to HN when it came out but it didn't get any traction): https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/09/blood-and-soil... Fascism is gaining in many parts of the world today. But the 'other' this time aren't Jews, they're Muslims.

With such a large percentage of the population of not just the country in question in the article, but also the entire world, I'm not sure they can be seen to be "the other" to the same degree as the Jews were, given how common they are. In 1933, there were an estimated 15 million Jews worldwide[1], 9 million or so in Europe. In Germany, with the largest Jewish population, they accounted for less than 1% of the popul…

[flagged]

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#33

Post by puranjay »

saq7 wrote: post #29
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #20

I really struggle to understand the Indian right wing perspective. There is absolutely no practical way to achieve their goal of a theocratic nation with the country still being intact. As much as they might want to fantasize about it, you can't wish away 200M minorities. Nor can you economically progress if 200M minorities are ghettoized.

I agree, though real economic progress doesn't seem like a priority for the government as can be witnessed by the slowdown and silly policies like demonetization.

I just think most people simply underestimate how many people 200M really is. They also grossly overestimate the number of people on "their" side.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#34

Post by theseadroid »

coldcode wrote: post #8

Fascism rose in popularity 100 years ago as a political option. Perhaps it is undergoing a renaissance. I have no idea why anyone thinks its a good idea unless you are the person in charge but it seems to attract support.

Because you probably live a comfortable life. For people who are struggling and see no hope of changing for better they often support more extreme policies just to "rock the boat". Years of rising inequality in many societies have created more people who'd like to have things change drastically.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#35

Post by jagannathtech »

wtmt wrote: post #5

> NC: One thing that’s happened is the press has been pretty much muzzled. They are very uncritical. This is a big issue with mass media in India that many don’t realize or want to realize. Between — a) most of the mainstream media houses (except a few) not asking tough questions (but supporting the government for everything), b) the Supreme Court ignoring important cases and not hearing them for years and c) the amo…

[flagged]

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#36

Post by rayiner »

Despegar wrote: post #2

Excellent New Yorker piece about this (I submitted it to HN when it came out but it didn't get any traction): https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/09/blood-and-soil... Fascism is gaining in many parts of the world today. But the 'other' this time aren't Jews, they're Muslims.

> Fascism is gaining in many parts of the world today. But the 'other' this time aren't Jews, they're Muslims.

As someone from a Muslim country, this comparison strikes me as facile and ignorant. It’s not just a group of people being viewed as “the other.” Even Muslim majority countries are facing challenges. In Bangladesh, the government is taking actions that people in western countries would probably liken to “fascism.” E.g. banning Muslim political parties. The problem these countries are grappling with is that they’re not just dealing with a group of people who happen to be different. There is a political ideology that crosses national borders and seeks to supplant existing institutions and governments. There is a lot of foreign money flowing into Bangladesh, to fund madrasas (schools) that teach hard line religion. Egypt and Turkey both fought these forces for decades, struggling to maintain secular, western institutions, and ultimately lost.

That is not to say that I don’t find Modi’s actions, or Bannon’s rhetoric, etc., troubling. I do. It’s just that there is a lot more here than you can understand through shallow analogies or the lens of western politics.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#37

Post by [deleted] »

saq7 wrote: post #11
amriksohata wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give examples of being muzzled?

One example is looking at the coverage The Hindu gave the BJP, RSS, and Modi before he came power and after. Before they were critical of BJP when it warranted, but since they came into power the coverage has been fawning. This sort of comparision can be made across the spectrum of the news media. They are smarter than outright jailing journalists.

[deleted]

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#39

Post by vsskanth »

The right wing party in India came to power in 2014 in a perfect storm of a very popular leader and a pretty weak opposition. Opposition was further weakened electorally with demonetization right before elections in the most populous state of India (UP).

They were able to successfully capture most institutions (RBI, supreme courts, investigative agencies) in addition to capturing the media through corporate ownership.

Social media strategy and a massive disinformation campaign on Whatsapp proved extremely successful in the 2019 elections and the right wing party now has an even bigger majority with the opposition decimated.

Barring a turn in public approval (probably from a recession), they will continue to perform well unless opposition steps up their game.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#40

Post by nashashmi »

kbenson wrote: post #13
Despegar wrote: post #2

Excellent New Yorker piece about this (I submitted it to HN when it came out but it didn't get any traction): https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/09/blood-and-soil... Fascism is gaining in many parts of the world today. But the 'other' this time aren't Jews, they're Muslims.

With such a large percentage of the population of not just the country in question in the article, but also the entire world, I'm not sure they can be seen to be "the other" to the same degree as the Jews were, given how common they are. In 1933, there were an estimated 15 million Jews worldwide[1], 9 million or so in Europe. In Germany, with the largest Jewish population, they accounted for less than 1% of the popul…

They are other with respect to status as minorities in certain populations.

They are also other with respect to minority influence or substandard representation in national and international affairs.

Post reply on HN