ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#61

Post by wayoutthere » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

Be careful with the stimulants -- I say this not as a value judgment but because they can have cognitive side effects that impair your ability to understand you're having those side effects.

Even when they work well there will be some collateral damage with stimulants. I was a great employee on them, but I was a shitty, narcissistic friend. The focus many people get from stimulants is an inward focus, which makes it easy to get things done but hard to empathize with other people. As a result I didn't have many friends, and once I started wanting more out of life I realized the stimulants were holding me back from personal growth. The inward focus clouded my ability to understand why people didn't like me -- I couldn't make enough space for another person to even see why people didn't want to be around me.

I'm not saying that stimulants don't help (they totally do) but you should understand what you want out of your life and how that aligns what you get out of the drugs.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#62

Post by omgwtfbyobbq » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

mdthrowaway wrote: post #56

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #16

For anyone diagnosed with ADHD, taking stimulants is associated with 8+x increase of being diagnosed with a basal ganglia and cerebellum disease later in life. I believe this is NOT causative, but is instead a correlation between other diseases associated with Dopamine production and ADHD. I take and have continued to take stimulants for ADHD. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-018-0207-5 In my family's case, we…

Segawa's is completely irrelevant in this case and not supported by any symptoms the author reports in the original article. I have diagnosed Segawa's. It is quite irresponsible to wave people off of successful treatments of ADHD, as you're doing here, because of your family's (unfortunate) history with a genetic disease. I apologize that we know little about Segawa's and you've had a journey to understand it, but th…

I think you're misinterpreting my post based on some of the other responses. I will update it to unambiguously state that people taking stimulants for ADHD should continue to take them, just like I have continued to.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#63

Post by thatsamonad » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

I find myself almost in tears reading certain parts of the article. Growing up I was also the, “Smart, but lazy” kid, and my parents just told me I was a bad kid who needed more discipline. I always felt like my brain just worked differently and spent decades feeling fundamentally “broken” because I was just too “unmotivated” and didn’t have enough “will-power”. To this day I struggle with feeling inadequate because of the message I heard.

That being said, I’m fortunate in that I’ve worked with a therapist who saw the ADHD (along with PTSD) symptoms and put a name to them. They pointed out that I’d basically been self-medicating with caffeine since I was a young kid. Even just having the acknowledgment and having words put to it has made a huge difference for me. Now I know it’s not some moral failing and laziness. My brain is just different and I have to figure out ways to make it work (currently those ways are medication, writing, therapy, and some incorporation of Buddhist teachings in my life).

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#64

Post by mdthrowaway » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #62

mdthrowaway wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Segawa's is completely irrelevant in this case and not supported by any symptoms the author reports in the original article. I have diagnosed Segawa's. It is quite irresponsible to wave people off of successful treatments of ADHD, as you're doing here, because of your family's (unfortunate) history with a genetic disease. I apologize that we know little about Segawa's and you've had a journey to understand it, but th…

I think you're misinterpreting my post based on some of the other responses. I will update it to unambiguously state that people taking stimulants for ADHD should continue to take them, just like I have continued to.

I'm not misinterpreting your post. You diagnosed the author with Segawa's based on your experiences by pointing out you wouldn't be surprised if he "had something similar". He does not, with certainty. You're also warning folks that the only consistently successful treatments we have for this (much, much more common) hyperactivity disorder are associated with unlikely neurological outcomes. Sure, an 8x increase sounds high, until you realize that it's multiplying a mere fraction, context you do not include.

I'm sorry to appeal to authority here, but comments like these do actually harm people by shying them away from treatment (just look at your replies), and please don't write them. Again, I'm sorry you're dealing with Segawa's, but even your edits in response to my comment are making your statement more harmful because they're based in pure speculation.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#65

Post by penagwin » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #4

vslira wrote: post #2

About getting treatment: it's extremely irritating that some people judge using Ritalin is somehow morally wrong. Yes, I get that "lifestyle changes" could help, but I don't want to change my lifestyle. Imagine if there was a pill to reduce risk of cardiac arrest, with some increased risk of something relatively minor. Can you imagine the uproar if cardiologists denied prescribing the pill, instead forcing people to…

There's another weird factor. Ritalin is an upper and it's stigmatized to take an upper - either your performance, judged by coworkers, will be equivalent or below theirs and the stimulant is seen as the only thing keeping you in your job (which can get super depressing internally) - or, if you're doing well in your position, it can breed internal and external doubt as to whether your performance would just be normal…

> Ever spent a day off staring at a wall dreading the possibility that you might waste a day until you realize the sun has gone down? Yup, so much fun.

This is literally every Saturday for me. I'm thinking about keeping my Ritalin by my bed. I don't understand why it's so difficult and it makes me really frustrated - I just can't get out of bed. I try to wake up and my mind goes "naw". I sit up to get out of bed, sit there for 40 minutes, and still can't get myself to get out of bed. Stare at my Pillow, some reddit posts, another 45 minutes are gone.

Now it's 2pm, I've wasted half the day. My depression tells me it's because I'm a lazy piece of shizzle.

Source: Diagnosed with ADD/Aspergers/Depression/Anxiety... Horaay :(

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#66

Post by ryandvm » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:45 PM UTC

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #16

For anyone diagnosed with ADHD, taking stimulants is associated with 8+x increase of being diagnosed with a basal ganglia and cerebellum disease later in life. I believe this is NOT causative, but is instead a correlation between other diseases associated with Dopamine production and ADHD. I take and have continued to take stimulants for ADHD. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-018-0207-5 In my family's case, we…

Thanks for the info on ADHD / basal ganglia and cerebellum. I was not aware of this.

It should be noted though that the study authors were pretty clear that the correlation is unclear given that untreated ADHD sufferers had a 2.5-fold increase in the same diseases.

> Researchers postulated that the association between psychostimulant use and BG&C diseases may be a result of a more severe ADHD phenotype, rather than a direct pharmacological effect.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#67

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:45 PM UTC

vonseel wrote: post #47

I’m 31 and have ADHD (diagnosed in my teens) and I’m pretty sure NOBODY with ADHD is going to have the wherewithal to read this entire article! Unless it happens to magically coincide with their hyper-focus topic of the moment! In all seriousness, I skimmed parts of the article and kept scrolling and it just kept going and going and going... like the Energizer bunny. I guess the author found a doctor to prescribe sti…

> Unless it happens to magically coincide with their hyper-focus topic of the moment!

It's funny. People with ADHD suffer from attention deficit but at the same time they display hyperattention when they encounter a subject they like. I've experienced it as well: once I start programming I have no problem doing it for 12 hours straight. I've found this trait in many ADHD patients. There's usually something that really turns them on and I always try to find it.

I think of it as an signal/noise ratio problem. Very high signal is needed to grab their attention and there is very low tolerance for noise.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#68

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

> "You're an engineer, that's not a field that people with ADHD have any success like you in."

I knew a neurologist who had ADHD.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#69

Post by omgwtfbyobbq » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

mdthrowaway wrote: post #64

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're misinterpreting my post based on some of the other responses. I will update it to unambiguously state that people taking stimulants for ADHD should continue to take them, just like I have continued to.

I'm not misinterpreting your post. You diagnosed the author with Segawa's based on your experiences by pointing out you wouldn't be surprised if he "had something similar". He does not, with certainty. You're also warning folks that the only consistently successful treatments we have for this (much, much more common) hyperactivity disorder are associated with unlikely neurological outcomes. Sure, an 8x increase sound…

I am not a doctor and I did not diagnose them with anything. I stated that what they described sounded very similar (nearly identical) to my experience, initially with ADHD and then with DRD. I have updated the initial post with clarifying statements.

I don't intend to mislead anyone. However, I do want people to be aware of possible links between ADHD and other disorders so that they can evaluate their own situation and seek medical care if they would like to.

More to the point, my family has been misdiagnosed for decades, and this likely would have been avoided if we were more aware of other possible diagnoses.

Re: ADHD, a Lifelong Struggle (2018)

#70

Post by ctruzzi » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 7:49 PM UTC

rustybelt wrote: post #51

Thousands of words and no mention of diet. I was diagnosed ADHD in 5th grade, tried just about every medication out there, and never landed on a workable long-term solution until I modified my diet. Medication always had mixed results. Many allowed me to focus and better control impulses, but the emotional crash at the end of the day was too much. Others caused insomnia or palpitations. Cutting sugar and limiting car…

I was diagnosed with ADHD around the 3rd grade (2 separate psychiatrists diagnosed me) and have never heard about diets as working above all others. Are there any studies or information about this route or is it perhaps changing your eating behavior allowed you to do those same things with other parts of your life?