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NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

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Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#41

Post by tjohns »

pgrote wrote: post #8

Incredible service. Is there a payment required for rescue services? For instance, does the Coast Guard charge the six people rescued when the boat sank?

In most places in the US, rescue is free as long as it's legitimate and you weren't being completely reckless.

They may chose to charge for false alarms, or if you did something that was completely and unambiguously boneheaded (e.g. the person who called for help three different times on the same trip for trivial comfort issues). But they usually prefer not to charge, since it would deter people from calling from help in a real emergency.

Rules very from state to state though. And outside the US, having to pay for rescue is more common.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#42

Post by davidw »

reaperducer wrote: post #37
jxcl wrote: post #2

I have one of these beacons and take it with me most times I'm going out alone into the wilderness. I don't want to be the guy who had to cut his own arm off after it got trapped by a falling boulder. That being said, this is an interesting spin on the number. I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible…

I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible emergency, thinking that they'll just use their cell phone if anything goes wrong. This is so true. I live in the desert, and it's amazing the number of people who simply don't take the natural world seriously. The dead and rescued are almost always tourists.…

> I'm sure there are remote places in Europe

There are a few, here and there, but it's just completely different. Everywhere in Italy (I lived there a number of years) there are people. It might just be a little mountain hut, or a cabin or something, but there are pretty much always other people around.

Here in Oregon, I can ride my bike to places where I almost won't see other people all day.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#43

Post by rhcom2 »

reaperducer wrote: post #37
jxcl wrote: post #2

I have one of these beacons and take it with me most times I'm going out alone into the wilderness. I don't want to be the guy who had to cut his own arm off after it got trapped by a falling boulder. That being said, this is an interesting spin on the number. I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible…

I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible emergency, thinking that they'll just use their cell phone if anything goes wrong. This is so true. I live in the desert, and it's amazing the number of people who simply don't take the natural world seriously. The dead and rescued are almost always tourists.…

A good read about being unprepared for the desert is "The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans" which is an amateur's search for answers on how a German family of tourists abandoned their van in Death Valley and then disappeared.

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#44

Post by linsomniac »

jxramos wrote: post #12
AYBABTME wrote: post #11

I bought one of these PLBs after spending 12h down a canyon with a broken ankle and no cell reception. Friends had to hike back out of the canyon and hike then drive for hours to get help. Never again. Since then I got a sailboat and it's pretty standard in that field to have EPIRB, PLBs and the likes. There's life-vests that come with mini-PLBs in them. It's a bit pricey but it's essential in my opinion. I was lucky…

How much does one of those go for if you don't mind me asking. From the article... >By law, beacon owners are required to register their devices online with NOAA. The registration information helps provide better and faster assistance to people in distress, and can guard against false alarms. What does that registration process look like exactly?

The ResQLink+ that I have looks to cost $300 now on Amazon.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#45

Post by japhyr »

jxcl wrote: post #36
japhyr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been an active member of a search and rescue team in southeast Alaska since 2002. This has been a really interesting period to be involved in SAR. When I started, very few people had cell phones or GPS devices. Then came a period where almost everyone had a cell phone. Then people had cell phones with embedded GPS. Now we're seeing many people with GPS-enabled mapping software such as Gaia on their devices. I ha…

Thank you so much for taking the time to write your experiences up! I have found SAR fascinating for a long time, and am kind of interested in getting involved, but it seems like an insurmountable commitment.

Where are you located? Getting involved in SAR looks a lot different depending on where you are. In my community most people spend some time outdoors, but there isn't any one focus like rock climbing or kayaking or anything. So we'll take just about anyone who's interested and has reasonable judgement, and find ways they can contribute. You can take someone brand new and have them stand at a trailhead and interview anyone who's coming off the trail, and brief anyone who's heading out onto the trail.

There are some communities where it's competitive to get onto a SAR team. This typically happens in large urban areas right next to popular outdoor locations. If there are 10k rock climbers in an area, there might be so many people interested in climbing SAR that they have limited spots available. That's pretty unusual, though.

SAR is usually administered through the local sheriff's department, although it can differ. Here in Alaska the state troopers are responsible for SAR, but our team is based at our local volunteer fire department. I would encourage you to get in touch with the people responsible for SAR in your area, and ask what it takes to get involved. Often times there are many different ways you can contribute, and it's a tremendously satisfying endeavor. It's also a really nice balance for sitting in front of a screen much of the day!

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#46

Post by ISL »

bluGill wrote: post #23
jxramos wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard some organizations try to collect fees from repeated offenders who tax search and rescue operations too frequently. Others collect under situations of negligence. https://www.outsideonline.com/1986496/search-and-rescue-publ...

I've heard of some organizations rejecting this because if it wasn't for all the unprepared people heading out and getting in over their head they would have to pay someone to go out an pretend to need rescued for training purposes. Having someone who really needs help is much better training than a planned mission - even if they shouldn't have needed help. Your mileage may vary, each rescue team has different situat…

Colorado has an interesting approach to these concerns.

https://www.colorado.gov/dola/search-and-rescue-fund

The state has set up a voluntary contribution system where hikers and other recreationalists can purchase a search-and-rescue card. Hunting/fishing licenses, off-highway vehicle permits, and other similar permits also contribute to the fund.

These cards are not mandatory for rescue, but rather, if a card/permit-holder is rescued, the localities' rescue costs are defrayed by the state fund.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#47

Post by japhyr »

rhcom2 wrote: post #43
reaperducer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible emergency, thinking that they'll just use their cell phone if anything goes wrong. This is so true. I live in the desert, and it's amazing the number of people who simply don't take the natural world seriously. The dead and rescued are almost always tourists.…

A good read about being unprepared for the desert is "The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans" which is an amateur's search for answers on how a German family of tourists abandoned their van in Death Valley and then disappeared. https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...

Yes, that is such a great read!

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#48

Post by tialaramex »

munificent wrote: post #26
jxcl wrote: post #2

I have one of these beacons and take it with me most times I'm going out alone into the wilderness. I don't want to be the guy who had to cut his own arm off after it got trapped by a falling boulder. That being said, this is an interesting spin on the number. I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible…

Risk compensation [0] has been studied and gets a lot of press because it tickles that combination of psychology + counter-intuitive result + play into narrative that people suck. As far as I know, though, most modern studies show that while there is some amount of risk compensation (people engage in riskier behavior after adopting a safety apparatus), the compensation is less than the benefit of the safety measure.…

Risk Compensation has its worst effects when the prior risk itself is concealed by the technology. IIRC anti-lock braking doesn't drive up accident rates for those who grew up with it (all cars they drive have ABS, that's just how cars work as far as they're concerned) but it did for those for whom it just made loss of control mysteriously vanish in their new car. They would think "I guess I'm just good at driving" and engage in behaviour which the car was now compensating for with ABS, not realising that this mean they were outside the safe performance envelope.

AEB deliberately is a scary experience to prevent this mistake. If your car's AEB triggers you'll be suddenly and violently brought to a complete halt in order that the feeling is "Oh shit, I fucked up, is everybody OK?" not "Wow I'm a great driver".

With a beacon the experience is likewise not great. It's not "Activate beacon, rescuers magically teleport in and save the day". There's zero real feedback, so most people will be worried that it hasn't been effective, nobody is coming. After an hour, or two, or more, rescuers may show up looking for you. That's a long time to be lost or injured in the middle of nowhere.

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#49

Post by Dowwie »

Zenst wrote: post #39
Dowwie wrote: post #38

My FastFind PLB doesn't seem to have replaceable batteries so I just left it in storage and haven't used it. Has anyone managed to replace their batteries?

https://www.sparesmarine.co.uk/mcmurdo-plb-battery-servicing... that any use?

Yowsa. Do I spent the additional $100 and go with a new one? I wonder how much technology has changed in 10 years since I bought this..

Re: NOAA Satellites Helped Save a Record 421 Lives in 2019

#50

Post by tdons »

rhcom2 wrote: post #43
reaperducer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hearing from friends on Search and Rescue crews that an increasing number of people are going out hiking being completely unprepared for any possible emergency, thinking that they'll just use their cell phone if anything goes wrong. This is so true. I live in the desert, and it's amazing the number of people who simply don't take the natural world seriously. The dead and rescued are almost always tourists.…

A good read about being unprepared for the desert is "The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans" which is an amateur's search for answers on how a German family of tourists abandoned their van in Death Valley and then disappeared. https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...

This website cost me a weekend once :-)
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