Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election • Hacker News Board

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#31

Post by jmg8766 » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

slipheen wrote: post #23

Beyond the security implications (which are huge and ought to be a deal breaker on their own), this seems to have a huge problem in that it's not private. Your abusive spouse/boss/dealer could tell you that they want to see you use the app to vote their way, and there's not much to prevent it. While going to a local precinct is inconvenient, no one knows what you do once you walk in that booth. That's important to av…

I never thought about how you could be coerced into voting a specific way like that and it does seem to be a big problem to me. But is that already possible with mail-in voting?

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#32

Post by sornaensis » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

slipheen wrote: post #23

Beyond the security implications (which are huge and ought to be a deal breaker on their own), this seems to have a huge problem in that it's not private. Your abusive spouse/boss/dealer could tell you that they want to see you use the app to vote their way, and there's not much to prevent it. While going to a local precinct is inconvenient, no one knows what you do once you walk in that booth. That's important to av…

How is this different from voting by mail, then? e.g. basically everyone in Oregon votes by mail only.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#33

Post by legitster » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

I want to point out that voting in Washington state is incredibly easy. They mail you a ballot, and a packet with detailed information on every single candidate and issue, and then you can drop your ballot just about anywhere - supermarket, mailbox, probably the street (who knows). It's probably the best voting system, hands down.

I don't buy that a smartphone magically hits some convenience threshold that turns out voters.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#34

Post by Spivak » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #19

> King County voters will be able to use their name and birthdate to log in to a Web portal through the Internet browser on their phones, says Bryan Finney, the CEO of Democracy Live, the Seattle-based voting company providing the technology. If they mean that there is a public URL you go to, and then on the site only have to enter you birhdate and name to log in, and then you can vote--that can't be right. There's g…

> There's gotta be more than that.

I mean I agree but this is how in-person voting works right now. The only "secret" information is my polling place but anyone who knows my name can figure that out since the voter records are public and includes my address.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#35

Post by devonkim » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

slipheen wrote: post #23

Beyond the security implications (which are huge and ought to be a deal breaker on their own), this seems to have a huge problem in that it's not private. Your abusive spouse/boss/dealer could tell you that they want to see you use the app to vote their way, and there's not much to prevent it. While going to a local precinct is inconvenient, no one knows what you do once you walk in that booth. That's important to av…

Voter intimidation at a local or institutional level is absolutely massive but giving people the _choice_ of voting in various ways hopefully negates the bad. I'd love to understand the data and anecdotal stories on this as well if any is available. I suspect that those in such abusive situations don't even get to vote whatsoever because they're physically captive / bound, but that is 100% conjecture on my part. Nobody advocating for this voting technology wants to encourage any form of intimidation and distortion of individuals' wills like you've described.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#36

Post by zacherates » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

sornaensis wrote: post #32

slipheen wrote: post #23

Beyond the security implications (which are huge and ought to be a deal breaker on their own), this seems to have a huge problem in that it's not private. Your abusive spouse/boss/dealer could tell you that they want to see you use the app to vote their way, and there's not much to prevent it. While going to a local precinct is inconvenient, no one knows what you do once you walk in that booth. That's important to av…

How is this different from voting by mail, then? e.g. basically everyone in Oregon votes by mail only.

... more relevant than Oregon: "Washington State votes by mail." [1]

[1] https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/faq_vote_by_mail.aspx

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#37

Post by Analemma_ » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

slipheen wrote: post #23

Beyond the security implications (which are huge and ought to be a deal breaker on their own), this seems to have a huge problem in that it's not private. Your abusive spouse/boss/dealer could tell you that they want to see you use the app to vote their way, and there's not much to prevent it. While going to a local precinct is inconvenient, no one knows what you do once you walk in that booth. That's important to av…

Washington already has voting by mail, and the solution to this problem there is that you can vote by mail but also travel to a poll station on election day and that vote overrides your mail ballot. I assume the same would be true here.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#38

Post by Spivak » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #33

I want to point out that voting in Washington state is incredibly easy. They mail you a ballot, and a packet with detailed information on every single candidate and issue, and then you can drop your ballot just about anywhere - supermarket, mailbox, probably the street (who knows). It's probably the best voting system, hands down. I don't buy that a smartphone magically hits some convenience threshold that turns out…

I mean it would work for me. I typically vote by mail but if my phone popped a notification that was like "It's election day!" and let me vote it would be done less than 5m after the ping.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#39

Post by extrapickles » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

flareback wrote: post #21

deogeo wrote: post #2

In related news, Saudi Arabia hacked Bezos' phone: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22122779 Could a similar hack be done on a larger scale, and used to alter votes before they are sent, without changing the electronic signature? Lets assume no until proven otherwise. And if proven otherwise, lets assume it was an isolated incident, and it won't happen again after a "commitment to do better". Lets also assume Mr.…

This doesn't even need hacking. You just go on facebook and find someones name and birthday and vote as them.

Actually the voter database is public record[0], and it includes birthdays. This means that it would be easy to have 100% turnout in the first few seconds of the polls being open.

[0]: https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/vrdb/extract-requests.aspx

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#40

Post by devonkim » Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

ssully wrote: post #28

deogeo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turnout can also be improved by voting on Sundays instead of work days. Yet they skipped that step and went right for electronic voting, that's nearly unanimously opposed by experts.

Just make it a national holiday

Virginia just made it a state holiday, yay for progress. Too bad half the people that should vote will still be working on that day or don't even think about voting because they're too stressed to care.