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Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

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Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#201

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

I think about this a lot from time to time. > facing issues with our reward function I would say, we are facing issues with our CULTURAL reward function. For very long now our culture have deified those few people that can overcome, achieve and excel. What if the point to our existence isn't to overcome our obstacles to productivity in "getting things done" - but instead to go out, explore, create, drink, eat & be ki…

You don't have to imagine. You can do a real cultural economic comparison to other countries: Italy, Greece, Russia, Spain (and others) are countries that index more on your proposed value system: socialization, family, quality of life over hard work.

China, Japan and the US index very highly on the productivity side of the spectrum, China probably significantly more than the US.

Some of those QOL-indexing countries also have high unemployment rates and relatively lower GDP per capita.

Unemployment + GDP are probably the wrong things to optimize for. Personally I believe Unemployment is overloaded as our optimization function for economic health, where median wage increase is more representative of livability.

One question I have (and genuinely can't guess at): if you are unemployed in Greece, on average, what exactly is your quality of life?

All that said, there are countries that strike a healthier balance with strong economies: Germany, Canada, UK.

Zooming way out, my take on productivity generally is: human pressure to push our productivity is inevitable because we still need to solve some very hard, expensive problems: (1) Our history of industrialization has led to unsustainable environmental impact. This may require 10-100x the engineering focus & coordination we've ever had before. (2) Disease still has significant impact. (3) We still need human labor to harvest and transform resources (agriculture, metals) (4) We still need human labor to generate more "life necessities" supply: electricity, housing, water / plumbing.

One could argue that for (3) & (4) we can be more like Germany and we'll still do great. Also one could argue that if we increased taxes / shifted government spend to subsidize housing development (vs. home ownership) we might also be fine.

Edits: grammar

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#202
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The ideal timeframe to use for the reward function” is an instance of an age old question about what’s really important in life. Most people agree that taking lots of heroin and dying in a matter of months is suboptimal. Most people also agree that living a life of utter sacrifice in pursuit of some higher goal might not be good either. You might be working on something pointless. Some self interest is actually bene…

"Especially if the future fun is experienced by someone else." I'm always reminded of the commercial where the young man saves up his money and works hard so his much older self can fly first class somewhere. I always think the same, this could be some other version of himself, does it make sense to give this your future self?

“The pennies you save will be the dollars your widow’s husband spends.”

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#203

I went 35 years of managing to be a capable, but never exceptional, achiever -- in high school, college, and in my career. I've also been a terrible procrastinator all during that time. It was never evident to me in school because I'd get the same grades as the kids working substantially harder than me. However, once I got into the workforce, and it took me many years to realize it, that performing to the "mean" was…

> ADHD (particularly the attention side, as an adult)

I take it that means hyperactivity wasn't one of your symptoms? I have the suspicion that I suffer from ADD (you basically described the same life I've had), but the hyperactivity part makes me unsure of myself.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#204

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

Part of the problem is that making the "right" decision requires knowing the future.

Sometimes procrastination is actually valuable. I've had many situations where I've been putting something off for a long time, and then eventually it turns out I didn't need to do that thing after all. Doing it would have ended up being a waste of time.

The problem is that you can't predict which things are important to do early and which ones you should wait on.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#205

I went 35 years of managing to be a capable, but never exceptional, achiever -- in high school, college, and in my career. I've also been a terrible procrastinator all during that time. It was never evident to me in school because I'd get the same grades as the kids working substantially harder than me. However, once I got into the workforce, and it took me many years to realize it, that performing to the "mean" was…

After spending 4 years around people high on prescription amphetamines in an engineering school, here’s my impression as someone who was mostly sober: (during the day anyway)

They look (to me) like they just make that effect where some people get hung up on certain classes of ideas way stronger, if it happens to be video games you won’t get anything done but if it happens to be math then you’ll probably get very good grades.

The problem with using them as an adult is that success as an adult has more to do with effective socializing and less to do with ability. People high on these things are the worst to be around. There was one guy I thought I hated the whole time I was in college and he got off this stuff and it turned out he was an awesome person sober! Most of the other people I know who were on the drugs are similar.

I’m not saying amphetamines are bad but there not magic either. Personally I think the psychoactive effects of chocolate and coffee are plenty for most people and it’s all about managing it.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#206

I went 35 years of managing to be a capable, but never exceptional, achiever -- in high school, college, and in my career. I've also been a terrible procrastinator all during that time. It was never evident to me in school because I'd get the same grades as the kids working substantially harder than me. However, once I got into the workforce, and it took me many years to realize it, that performing to the "mean" was…

> ADHD (particularly the attention side, as an adult) I take it that means hyperactivity wasn't one of your symptoms? I have the suspicion that I suffer from ADD (you basically described the same life I've had), but the hyperactivity part makes me unsure of myself.

What do you mean when you say hyperactivity makes you unsure of yourself?

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is a bit odd if you are human, but let me explain this in short terms. Modern lifestyle has stripped many of us of essential, real problems. By far not all, of course, but definitely the generally well-paid IT crowd on HN. So instead of hustling to survive like a maid in 1929 Berlin (I am watching Babylon Berlin right now) what's left over are luxury problems, especially if you're in the double income no…

This is quite a good description of it. I'm so tired of existing. I don't have a brain that's wired in such a way that I'll ever really create something worthwhile. I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me. Why even maintain this existence...?

Edit: that's it. I'm writing a dating guide soon. I'm seeing this too often on HN.

--- original post ---

> I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me.

I've had this issue for 6 years (between 16 to 22). I was heavily involved with the pickup artist community at the time. I wouldn't call myself a pickup artist, since what I do isn't picking up women and it isn't an art. I just used whatever good advice they had lying around and used it. After 6 years, here are the cliff notes (I studied psychology as well, so you can bet this has some science behind it).

- The most important advice: only take advice you understand or are curious about and test whether it works for you. If it doesn't, that's completely fine. Advice in getting relationships does not have a one size fits all solution. Maybe this will be the case in the future, but for now, no one figured it out yet.

- Learn cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Read David Burns Intimate Connections and Feeling Good.

- Learn Mindfulness Meditation and other forms. Read Search Inside Yourself by Chade Meng-Tan.

- Finding a therapist is always a good idea. They can second those books and they can second CBT.

- Strength + cardiovascular exercise helps (strength for body posture, running for mental sharpness). The best way to get into this IMO is to simply lift a weight a couple of times until your heart starts beating a bit faster. Then when it is beating faster, notice how you're feeling slightly more in ecstacy than before (other than some slight muscle fatigue).

- Fix your fashion. A good fashion doesn't win women over. It is appreciated though. A bad fashion does let them run away. If you don't want them to run away, stay safe, have a good fashion.

- Read up on assorted mating theory and try to find women that are compatible with you personality-wise, and ask yourself where they'd hangout or how you'd recognize them. I was into artsy types, so anyone who looked like an artist, I'd introduce myself to. I have a high openess to experience, artsy people tend to as well. Do a big 5 personality test (no mbti/myer's briggs nonsense).

- Be careful with pickup artist advice. It's toxic and sexist as hell. The sexism is bullshit.

- This stuff is hard work. I have a friend who has slightly better looks than me (I'm not a pretty person, I'm average at best), but he has no initiative. His dates / relationships are far and few in between. I do think he's enjoying life though.

Those are my biggest tips, most are also quite science-backed.

Some personal findings:

- Getting a girlfriend won't fix your life. You need to take care of your own problems. The only thing it does, it enriches your life.

- You need to come from a place where you feel like you don't need a girlfriend, but it would simply be nice or fun or adventurous (or whatever positive emotion you can think about). The best way to do that is to cater to every single need that you have as much as possible without needing someone else to help you with it.

- You need to make your intentions clear as soon as you know them. I sometimes do it when I see a woman. I do steer clear from cliche's. If I think she's hot as hell, I try to mention that in its most eloquent form (e.g. I'd say she has a nice fashion sense, amazing energy and cute -- I would then go into specific detail). This makes things a lot less complicated. Be respectful about it. I always asked for permission to kiss women, verbally. This goes straight against pickup artist literature, but I found that it worked enough of the time and at least I had a good feeling about it to get verbal consent.

- It is a numbers game. You need volume, but if after a 1000 approaches you haven't even felt a real connection and kissed someone, you're doing something wrong and you need a coach. The problem: most coaches suck. The only one that I know is good is called Ratisse (personal experience but I was already nearly complete in what I needed to learn).

- You can be yourself. Except, you must also be: positive, optimistic and playful. Other than that, you can be yourself.

- You'll have more success approaching women by yourself than with friends. Reason: you're less threatening by yourself, and convey more open body language. The hyper charged version of this is traveling alone (warning: it can be tough at times, just meet people at hostels. If you don't know what to say then just introduce yourself to a group of people at hostels with "hi my name is what are you guys doing in ?" And have a story ready as to why you think the country/place is genuinely amazing, don't fake the story, just tell a story from the heart. This does the trick often enough.).

- Try to come up with a method of dating women by focusing on your strenghts. Do this as fast as possible. My weakness: lack of humor. My strength: a shit ton of fantasy. My solution: approach women with fantastical stories that I'm making up out of thin air.

- It's the inside that counts, not the outside. The outside is fun, so are drugs or video games. But a good personality means guaranteed amazing sex no matter how she looks, so IMO looks are irrelevant even from a hedonic perspective. I've been with good looking women, but the best sex I've ever had wasn't from a good looking woman. The most amazing intimate moments didn't have any correlation with looks either (sometimes they were good looking). The only thing I had was that I became less insecure after having slept with a few good looking women (and ultimately realizing it was all nonsense).

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#208
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The ideal timeframe to use for the reward function” is an instance of an age old question about what’s really important in life. Most people agree that taking lots of heroin and dying in a matter of months is suboptimal. Most people also agree that living a life of utter sacrifice in pursuit of some higher goal might not be good either. You might be working on something pointless. Some self interest is actually bene…

"Especially if the future fun is experienced by someone else." I'm always reminded of the commercial where the young man saves up his money and works hard so his much older self can fly first class somewhere. I always think the same, this could be some other version of himself, does it make sense to give this your future self?

Reminds me of the story in Invisible Cities - a young man dreams of the perfect city that contains all of his favorite things. By the time he arrives at the city of his dreams, he is an old man and sits off to the side with the other old men, who have moved on from the dreams of their youth.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is a bit odd if you are human, but let me explain this in short terms. Modern lifestyle has stripped many of us of essential, real problems. By far not all, of course, but definitely the generally well-paid IT crowd on HN. So instead of hustling to survive like a maid in 1929 Berlin (I am watching Babylon Berlin right now) what's left over are luxury problems, especially if you're in the double income no…

This is quite a good description of it. I'm so tired of existing. I don't have a brain that's wired in such a way that I'll ever really create something worthwhile. I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me. Why even maintain this existence...?

The pain you express here is one I recognize, I'm sorry. For me the answer is simple to say and difficult to execute - if I don't value the world I am in, create a world that I do value. Creating worlds is awesome, literally Godlike. And very, very hard work that I try to be patient watching me flail at.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#210

I went 35 years of managing to be a capable, but never exceptional, achiever -- in high school, college, and in my career. I've also been a terrible procrastinator all during that time. It was never evident to me in school because I'd get the same grades as the kids working substantially harder than me. However, once I got into the workforce, and it took me many years to realize it, that performing to the "mean" was…

> ADHD (particularly the attention side, as an adult) I take it that means hyperactivity wasn't one of your symptoms? I have the suspicion that I suffer from ADD (you basically described the same life I've had), but the hyperactivity part makes me unsure of myself.

For further reflection I highly recommend "Scattered Minds" by Gabor Maté. Exceptional book by an exceptional physician.
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