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Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

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Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#191

Post by TeMPOraL »

beardedman wrote: post #182
INGELRII wrote: post #124

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

I think about this a lot from time to time. > facing issues with our reward function I would say, we are facing issues with our CULTURAL reward function. For very long now our culture have deified those few people that can overcome, achieve and excel. What if the point to our existence isn't to overcome our obstacles to productivity in "getting things done" - but instead to go out, explore, create, drink, eat & be ki…

What if, for some of us, it's neither? Not just getting arbitrary things done, with $things being a free variable. And not just living a life in maintenance/standby mode - the "drink, eat and be kind" part. To me, the latter sounds empty, and the former sounds pointless - because the whole point is that free variable. The things we do.

One of the nice and addicting things about videogames is that they tend to set a goal in front of you that you emotionally care about, and then let you achieve it step by step through wits and skill. The goal is relevant, achievable; the steps and the outcomes have clear impact on your progress towards that goal, and the feedback is pretty much immediate.

This is in contrast to our modern lives. There are almost no large, social-scale goals that are achievable by individuals or small groups. There are goals in the smaller communities, but smaller communities these days are less present and more fluid. And even among the goals affecting you and those close to you, achieving them tends to feel either like following a tutorial (no point in having agency), or like a game of chance (work, love). The feedback is distant, failure and success both turn your "gameplay" upside down.

I'm not totally convinced of this, but I have this feeling that the problem of our cultural reward function is that today, it's mostly defined as "do whatever you like, be whoever you want to be". Maximum freedom, but minimum direction.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#192

Post by mettamage »

mlrtime wrote: post #168
CaptArmchair wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to love this video on YouTube aptly titled "Meaning is a jumper you have to knit for yourself": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaCM1j9LEM Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism. Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game: > Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably…

All this boils down to finding a purpose in life. At the risk of sounding sexist, I feel this is a burden that largely falls on men only. Women can find purpose through children or being dependent on their man for purpose. It is truly the burden of man to find purpose.

Yep, IMO that sounds sexist. I think especially the second thing is sexist (dependent on a man). I can point to counter examples. There might be a trend in some locales? I wouldn't know. But the way it's written it sounds a bit like it's inherent to the woman (being dependent on the man for purpose), that's why it sounds sexist.

Just pointing it out how it sounds and why it sounds to me that way (I didn't downvote). At the risk of sounding controversial, that's okay (I like to hunt after big sexist issues and this isn't one of them, e.g. convincing men why to be a feminist and what's in it for them).

But I do really appreciate the insight that the biggest biological difference between men and women (ability to give birth for a relatively short period of time, IMO) does put them in a different existential starting position right from the outset. Because they need to deal with this. I'm 30 now and I'm slowly beginning to be like "oh yea kids, that's a thing." (men have it easy that way, IMO)

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#193

Post by TeMPOraL »

platz wrote: post #158
ben_w wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always map lots of small reward functions onto a single large one. For a fictitious example, total_reward = sin(time_of_day) × dopamine_reward + (oxytocin_reward / adrenaline_reward)

How do you even add them.. it's like asking what is the utility of the statue of liberty plus the utility of NAFTA? Just because it's a mathematicians/economists wish doesn't mean it's correct. Why did the drunken man look under the streetlight for his keys? "Didn't loose them here, but that's where the light is"

> How do you even add them..

In dollars. It's literally what currency is for.

Of course there's no one set of dollar values for most items. They very much depend on a context. But in a particular, well-defined context, you can very much convert both Statue of Liberty and NAFTA to dollars and sum them up to something that makes sense in that context.

> Why did the drunken man look under the streetlight for his keys? "Didn't loose them here, but that's where the light is"

Well, drunk people tend to have problems calculating expected value.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#194

Post by CaptArmchair »

mlrtime wrote: post #168
CaptArmchair wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to love this video on YouTube aptly titled "Meaning is a jumper you have to knit for yourself": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaCM1j9LEM Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism. Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game: > Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably…

All this boils down to finding a purpose in life. At the risk of sounding sexist, I feel this is a burden that largely falls on men only. Women can find purpose through children or being dependent on their man for purpose. It is truly the burden of man to find purpose.

> Women can find purpose through children

Why can't men? What's stopping you from finding purpose through being a father?

Gender roles are enforced and affirmed if individuals aren't willing to challenge them and push back in the first place.

Another truth of life is this: You can't always have your cake and eat it at the same time. Everyone gets the same 24/7/365. What you choose to do with it is what matters.

If men and women choose to assume traditional gender roles, then that's because individuals aren't challenging their own beliefs. And by behaving in a traditional gender roles, they implicitly perpetuate the notion that men need to spend their lives in the service of their jobs rather then their children. And that the lot of women is the opposite.

Change starts with yourself.

> being dependent on their man for purpose

Which is, really, hugely unhealthy behavior in itself, regardless of gender. (Yes, many men equally end up doing the same thing: sticking it out with a partner they may resent because they believe that living for your partner is the only purpose in life.)

The same is true for the idea that "children give my life purpose". Think about it. What if the sole reason why you exist, is to give your parents purpose? That sounds incredibly deprecating the lives of your parents, and it places a crushing amount pressure on what you decide to do with your life.

> It is truly the burden of man to find purpose.

It's the challenge every living human faces.

Moreover, so many are looking for purpose in the wrong spots: outside of themselves. They derive from external validation. That is, be perceived and told that you are a good employee, a good sportsman, a good husband, a good father, etc. etc. They look for markers such as wealth or fame to get validated in who they are. And they get depressed if they don't get the validation they crave, especially when they put their standards to unattainable high bars.

The real challenge is simply to learn to live with yourself. To be able to spend a day on your own, with your own thoughts, in your own body. To be a kind and loving friend to who you are as a person.

This is something you can only attain through time, practice and self-awareness. Your own mind is literally a house you build for yourself to live in. The ideas and beliefs you absorb are the bricks and mortar of that house.

If you are careless to the building materials, I can telly you that living in your own mind won't be very pleasant. Invariably, there will be times in your life when you will be alone or on your own. Like, when you move out to live alone, or when you divorce, or when you travel alone, or when you are old and alone. If, by then, you aren't able to live with your own thoughts and feelings, well, life will be a struggle.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#195

Post by jp555 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #184
jp555 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a domain of unknowable unknowns not a sort of singularity (systems theory), and therefore a kind of infinite?

I didn't encounter that concept, so I don't know. That said, I'd argue these are unknown unknowns, but they're not unknowable in principle (except perhaps in areas where incompleteness theorem applies).

But then again how do we know they are unknown and not unknowable?

omg speaking of infinites... this rabbit hole may never have an end. LOL Cheers.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#196

Post by Brave-Steak »

codingmess wrote: post #174
Brave-Steak wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My subconsciousness wants to eat, sleep, fuck and play video games. I'm not sure I want to be taking its advice.

Your subconsciousness doesn't ask for your permission.

Yeah, that's the problem. That's why I'm reading this stuff about procrastination. What's your point? Are you saying I should just give up?

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#197

Post by mlatu »

> By this view, I haven’t fully appreciated how long my assignment is going to take and I’m not paying enough attention to how much time I’m currently wasting on ‘cyberloafing’. With better scheduling and a better grip on time, so the logic goes, I will stop procrastinating and get on with my work.

My guess is whoever came up with that BS never procrastinated themselves.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#198

Post by CaptArmchair »

mettamage wrote: post #192
mlrtime wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this boils down to finding a purpose in life. At the risk of sounding sexist, I feel this is a burden that largely falls on men only. Women can find purpose through children or being dependent on their man for purpose. It is truly the burden of man to find purpose.

Yep, IMO that sounds sexist. I think especially the second thing is sexist (dependent on a man). I can point to counter examples. There might be a trend in some locales? I wouldn't know. But the way it's written it sounds a bit like it's inherent to the woman (being dependent on the man for purpose), that's why it sounds sexist. Just pointing it out how it sounds and why it sounds to me that way (I didn't downvote).…

Two assertions:

One. Men can have kids up to high age, yes, but after 35, quality declines and the probability that their children will have face disorders and disabilities increases.

Two. Having children to leave a happy life isn't an obligation. It's an option. Most parents love their kids to bits, but will also grudgingly admit that the drudgery of parenthood is probably the most grueling thing you can do with life. And let's not discount the fact that it's literally playing lottery: disabled kids happen too, and you have to be willing to accept that. If you don't have kids yet, think very hard about why you would want to become a parent; and please be extremely critical towards your own romantic notions.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#200

Post by simongr3dal »

neuronic wrote: post #75
trianglem wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>to feel something This is a phrase I hear in American discourse a lot. What does it mean?

The question is a bit odd if you are human, but let me explain this in short terms. Modern lifestyle has stripped many of us of essential, real problems. By far not all, of course, but definitely the generally well-paid IT crowd on HN. So instead of hustling to survive like a maid in 1929 Berlin (I am watching Babylon Berlin right now) what's left over are luxury problems, especially if you're in the double income no…

I like to think that Maslov's Hierachy of Needs has a deeper meaning than just describing that you shouldn't buy an iPhone before you have food in the fridge or whatever.

The sort of emotions and problems being felt at the higher levels of the hierachy are just as important to the psyche as the emotions and problems being felt at the lower levels of the hierachy.

Even if it is "first world problems", not being fulfilled in the right way can be very distressing.

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