Live data from Hacker News

Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

bbc.com

181–190 of 368 posts

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimate issue it does not tackle is lack of real reward. Usually when we do something that is not strictly required of us it's for a reward. (Including mutants who like solving problems just for the sake of solving problems.) Abstract rewards are obviously not rewards. They're hypotheticals. Most of the time we do not get rewarded for work, much less proportionally to effort. This of course over time ruins self-cont…

There's a saying. A cat get satisfaction from stalking, chasing, catching, softening, killing and eating the prey. The system wouldn't work if it only got satisfaction from eating. People can get satisfaction from things like receiving admiration (depends hugely who gives it) and thus be motivated by it.

I hope the cat analogy is helpful to someone. I can't help pointing out an inaccuracy though:

> The system wouldn't work if it only got satisfaction from eating.

Many predators only hunt when they're hungry, and it works fine for them. Housecats are an exception. Humans have bred them to be "good mousers", meaning they don't stop killing when they're no longer hungry.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#182

As the society advances and problems are solved for us, we are left with the most central core problem, ourselves. Related to concepts like 'agency', 'impulse control', 'willpower', 'restraint', 'free will', 'delayed gratification' are connected to our status and self image. If you think humans as AI systems, we are facing issues with our reward function. Short term reward seems to overrule long term planning and goa…

I think about this a lot from time to time.

> facing issues with our reward function

I would say, we are facing issues with our CULTURAL reward function.

For very long now our culture have deified those few people that can overcome, achieve and excel. What if the point to our existence isn't to overcome our obstacles to productivity in "getting things done" - but instead to go out, explore, create, drink, eat & be kind to each other within a relatively small community of people. I'm not saying that I know what that looks like, but I know I've wanted to run into the woods and never come back, a good few times now.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#183
post #116

If anyone wants to learn more about this topic, I wrote an extensive overview of specific reasons why people procrastinate: https://solvingprocrastination.com/why-people-procrastinate/ It covers all of the most common reasons for procrastination, such as abstract goals, a disconnect from the future self, anxiety, task aversion, perfectionism, and fear of failure. In addition, there's a comprehensive follow-up article…

I think this seems to fall into the exact trap he is talking about. You say it's about emotions, but then you launch into a bunch of time management techniques.

You talk about emotions but seem to have missed the crux of the problem, and then all the techniques you start with are all time management techniques (which he's already said don't work). You do have some emotional advice, but it never head-on confronts the problem.

That it will be uncomfortable to start, but that's ok. It passes.

Nowhere in your guide is this advice of how to just get started:

The next time you’re tempted to procrastinate, “make your focus as simple as ‘What’s the next action – a simple next step – I would take on this task if I were to get started on it now?’”. Doing this, he says, takes your mind off your feelings and onto easily achievable action.

That's about managing emotions.

Your first advice is to start making huge lists of goals, steps, etc., which can be another form of procrastination. That might be useful once you've stopped procrastinating, not now when you're procrastinating. His advice wasn't to get a list of your goals done. It was to simply to pick the smallest task you can think of now. Realise it's going to be uncomfortable, but that's life and it'll (usually) pass in minutes. That's about getting started.

Nowhere do you explain, as the article does, that it's about being able to tolerate uncomfortable thoughts and feelings.

As a persistent procrastinator that's just got 4 hours of solid work done with the simple little trick described in the article. It worked. Yours doesn't, I've done those lists many times before. Realising that yes, it's uncomfortable, but just do the first small task you can think of, your advice is too BIG. Too MUCH. Start simple, and then build those other things.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#184
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you take that "infinitely" from? Why do you assume that what we don't know is actually "infinitely" larger?

Is a domain of unknowable unknowns not a sort of singularity (systems theory), and therefore a kind of infinite?

I didn't encounter that concept, so I don't know. That said, I'd argue these are unknown unknowns, but they're not unknowable in principle (except perhaps in areas where incompleteness theorem applies).

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#185
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap, reading this is creepy since I don't think there's anything to add or subtract that could make it more fitting for myself. I've been feeling like this for a few years now, yet I could never articulate it as well as you have. I make about 3 times what a regular developer makes in the UK and, when I got this job, I felt like I 'made it'. That was very short-lived, as I succumbed to the meaninglessness you de…

You're going to love this video on YouTube aptly titled "Meaning is a jumper you have to knit for yourself": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaCM1j9LEM Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism. Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game: > Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably…

> Exurb1a

I am familiar with him and fond of his videos, generally speaking. How much of his 'teachings' I can apply is a separate matter.

> Here's the hard truth: You have conditioned to feel guilty if you don't spend your time either producing or consuming.

True. Despite not being a huge fan of consumerism, I am convinced it is shaping my decisions one way or another. Since our whole system is built around this, there's no telling where the need ends and the mindless shopping begins. For example, if I get a tear in my favorite T-shirt, I'd probably buy a new one, while my grandmother would have tried to repair it.

What is definitely true is that I have conditioned myself to produce. Part of it might be simply societal pressure, part of it might be my personal ambition to 'be someone', but I think a lot of it is the realization that all the dreams I had as a child are slowly becoming crushed by the realities of adulthood, my limited energy, my limited brain. Because of all this, I realize that my existence is not special in any way. I am just some other soul lost in the crowd, not glowing in any way. Some day I will die and the world will not have been better or worse because of it.

Funny you bring up Elon. For all the criticism he is getting lately, I can't help but think of him as the person I want to be. This guy dares to not only think about a future with space exploration and hyperloops in it, but also does something about it. Say what you will, but there are not many people on the same level of audaciousness as him. With that said, I will never even be close to what Elon is and accepting this is hard.

The more I read and learn, the more disappointed I am with the world. I feel like apart from maybe 2-3% of the population, the rest is strictly concerned with how they can impress their friends at an upcoming party, sports, how good or bad the new Avenger movie is, how to remodel their kitchen and so on. The whole world is driven almost entirely by advertising, PR, marketing, influencers. It's driving me mad at times, thinking about how little true achievements are celebrated. Just a random one - China just released some pictures from the moon and seeing them gave me chills. I believe few people would care at all about this.

And I just don't know if this is the way things eventually end up or if the world could have been vastly different with just a few different twists of the historical timeline.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#186
In my personal case, I procrastinated way too much for not being "myself". Once I fixed that.... I stopped procrastination a lot.

Indeed I agree with the opinion that it is more a problem of emotions rather than time managing and my personal experience showed it to me.

Fortunately for me I knew me and knew what was wrong and when I attended that, it just worked out as expected.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#187
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap, reading this is creepy since I don't think there's anything to add or subtract that could make it more fitting for myself. I've been feeling like this for a few years now, yet I could never articulate it as well as you have. I make about 3 times what a regular developer makes in the UK and, when I got this job, I felt like I 'made it'. That was very short-lived, as I succumbed to the meaninglessness you de…

You're going to love this video on YouTube aptly titled "Meaning is a jumper you have to knit for yourself": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaCM1j9LEM Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism. Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game: > Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably…

> Well, yeah, sure, but are you actually taking this on because the idea truly resonates with you? Clicks with who you are? Or are you just waking up each morning, secretly resenting the entire thing, because some "thought leader" marketed the idea of "running = road to success" in such a way that you honestly started to believing that?

Thanks, I needed to read this.

Ironically, one of the few areas I don't have this with is running. For one of the unique things that defines me is a talent for it and I run whenever I'm alone and traveling on foot since I'm an impatient fellow.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#188
Being healthy is a key to solving procrastination. Feeling good about yourself, feeling prepared and optimistic, feeling good about your body, all puts you in the right state of mind to achieve and "exercise willpower". Being tired or out of shape really hurts that! So sleep well, eat well, and get some exercise.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#189
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The ideal timeframe to use for the reward function” is an instance of an age old question about what’s really important in life. Most people agree that taking lots of heroin and dying in a matter of months is suboptimal. Most people also agree that living a life of utter sacrifice in pursuit of some higher goal might not be good either. You might be working on something pointless. Some self interest is actually bene…

"Especially if the future fun is experienced by someone else." I'm always reminded of the commercial where the young man saves up his money and works hard so his much older self can fly first class somewhere. I always think the same, this could be some other version of himself, does it make sense to give this your future self?

That reminds me of a quote from Machiavelli that I recently saw on HN: "Severities should be dealt out all at once, so that their suddenness may give less offense; benefits should be conferred gradually, and in that way they will taste better."

This advice may also apply to one's own spending and activity choices.

Re: Procrastination is about managing emotions, not time

#190

Yesterday I had a bit of a talk with myself about my behavior pertaining to procrastination. I am addicted to: - YouTube - Gaming Worse, I have quite a runway due to low living expenses. I came with a new idea today, I hope it helps anyone else. I need to get good at generating my own feelings. This is why I play games and watch videos. I do it to feel something. In order to do that I need to stay as close as to the…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN