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Retiring Internet Explorer

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Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#91

Post by simula67 »

mwcampbell wrote: post #85

> IE9 was a fantastic, best-of-its-time browser, and I’ll forever be proud of it. But as IE9 wound down and the Windows 8 adventure began, it was already clear that its lead would not last against the Chrome juggernaut. This is tangential, but I wonder how Chrome got so far ahead, not in market share but in features and quality, even with IE's 10+ year head start. Did Google just throw more programmers at the problem…

They used WebKit for rendering and that cut down some of IE's 10+ year lead.

Also, I think they had a fairly good test infrastructure from the beginning ( I think they tested new versions of Chrome against Google's index of top million websites ). Good test infrastructure can give you compounded returns as the project goes on.

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#92

Post by jp_sc »

mynameishere wrote: post #89
mwcampbell wrote: post #85

> IE9 was a fantastic, best-of-its-time browser, and I’ll forever be proud of it. But as IE9 wound down and the Windows 8 adventure began, it was already clear that its lead would not last against the Chrome juggernaut. This is tangential, but I wonder how Chrome got so far ahead, not in market share but in features and quality, even with IE's 10+ year head start. Did Google just throw more programmers at the problem…

Don't you remember the weird explanatory comic that came out with Chrome? https://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/index.html

Illustrated by none other than Scott McCloud, how to forget it?

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#93

Post by orionblastar »

I wrote JScript and VBScript for IE 5.X and 6.0 more than 20 years ago. We used ActiveX objects to do things on the client side of intranet applications for a law firm.I wrote a docket calendar that used the date picker control for example. We could only use IE not Netscape and nothing else. Which meant it was not a cross compilable with Linux, OS/2, MacOS etc and people who used those computers where SOL. I tried to talk about JavaScript and Java to make it cross over to the other systems, but I was told it was a Microsoft Shop and we only use MS technologies.

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#94

Post by badsectoracula »

int_19h wrote: post #73
sjwright wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe is a valid reason for Windows to continue shipping with MSHTML.dll — not a valid reason to continue shipping the actual iexplore.exe GUI executable.

You might be surprised just how much legacy software does something like spawn("iexplore.exe"). And then there are all the internal corporate web portals that are still IE-only, and probably will remain so for as long as IE is supported in any shape or form.

Legacy software like pretty much all of GOG's installers when you click the "Download" button on one of the embedded ads that show during installation :-P

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#95

Post by badsectoracula »

unilynx wrote: post #59
derefr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second sentence is not much of a surprise; why would something require IE if not for its ActiveX support? Certainly, some things might render brokenly in other browsers, but ActiveX is the only real "IE-only feature" a site might depend on.

VBScript and HTA files (HTML Applications) come to mind. HTAs were actually an interesting direction, once used them to ship a simple application (a very visual FTP upload). It was unsandboxed HTML and JS that could access all the ActiveX APIs. A bit like Electron now. Can't image there not being a few niches out there that heavily rely (or relied) on HTAs

I have a small niche... a calculator that opens fast :-P

http://runtimeterror.com/tools/calc/calc.hta.txt

(yes, running an HTA "calc" is faster than the UWP Windows 10 calculator... and uses less RAM :-/).

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#96

Post by paulddraper »

sjwright wrote: post #64
cesarb wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I recall, iexplore.exe is actually only a small wrapper around mshtml.dll. A lot of software depend on mshtml.dll and related DLLs. So you might think you're not using IE, but other non-browser software you use might be using IE under the covers. If Microsoft doesn't install IE by default, these programs would not work correctly (which is why Wine also implements these DLLs).

Correct, iexplore.exe is itself a small wrapper. But that doesn't stop Microsoft from not shipping that small wrapper. Software that embeds mshtml.dll does not require the existence of the exe file. (Or alternatively, Microsoft could put some hack into Windows so that attempts to run iexplore.exe are passed to Edge unless the administrator has twiddled with some arbitrary registry key or group policy.)

> But that doesn't stop Microsoft from not shipping that small wrapper.

But what's the benefit of complicating the install?

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#97

Post by Achshar »

lifthrasiir wrote: post #84
rahimnathwani wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My bank in China requires Windows + IE + a custom ActiveX control to use their Internet banking. As a result, I don't use it." Why not have a VM just for internet banking? Surely that's easier than taking the chop out of the safe and waiting in line at the branch.

At least in South Korea some (but not all) rootkits actively check for the presence of VM.

How does once check for the presence of a VM from inside the VM? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the VM to begin with?

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#98

Post by lifthrasiir »

Achshar wrote: post #97
lifthrasiir wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in South Korea some (but not all) rootkits actively check for the presence of VM.

How does once check for the presence of a VM from inside the VM? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the VM to begin with?

Theoretically speaking you can make a VM that is indistinguishable to a real computer. In reality most VM solutions do not attempt to do so. For example, many install specialized drivers to communicate to the host that can be readily checked.

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#99

Post by Polylactic_acid »

sjwright wrote: post #76
int_19h wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be surprised just how much legacy software does something like spawn("iexplore.exe"). And then there are all the internal corporate web portals that are still IE-only, and probably will remain so for as long as IE is supported in any shape or form.

Microsoft should certainly make it easy for corporate deployments to re-enable iexplore.exe — but it shouldn't be available by default on your typical Windows 10 install. (It's already available to uninstall and reinstall as an "optional feature".) Or at the very least, Explorer and the task bar should do everything in its power to hide the existence of Internet Explorer 11. It shouldn't be listed as a program anywhe…

This is probably a good idea. It seems that so many of the IE users I deal with at work do not need IE for any reason, they are just familiar with the icon and continue to use it even if any other browser would work just as well.

Re: Retiring Internet Explorer

#100

Post by Polylactic_acid »

wvenable wrote: post #69
sjwright wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, iexplore.exe is itself a small wrapper. But that doesn't stop Microsoft from not shipping that small wrapper. Software that embeds mshtml.dll does not require the existence of the exe file. (Or alternatively, Microsoft could put some hack into Windows so that attempts to run iexplore.exe are passed to Edge unless the administrator has twiddled with some arbitrary registry key or group policy.)

> But that doesn't stop Microsoft from not shipping that small wrapper. They could but that goes back to reply about it existing software still requiring IE. IE will be around for as long as very critical apps still require it. In some form, it might be around forever.

IE should just be a compatibility mode in edge so you only have one program and a button to say "this page is broken, load in legacy mode". That way everyone else in the world can stop being forced to support IE users.
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