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Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#281

Post by erk__ »

ctdonath wrote: post #274
erk__ wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one place where it currently is a pretty large failure, and that is repair shops. The waiting times are very large compared to other manufactures.

Yes, repair still needs sorting out. HOWEVER, other manufacturers build for repairs: there are high-cost repair services provided at every dealership. Yes you can get a car fixed, but that's because it's built to need fixing often & terminally.

HOWEVER, other car manufactures follow the law* and makes it possible for independant shops to buy replacement parts and sells service manuals. Witch as far as I am aware Tesla still does not do.

*: in the EU:

> Easy and clear access to information on vehicle repair and maintenance (RMI) is key to guaranteeing free competition on the vehicle aftermarket. Manufacturers must ensure that independent operators have easy, restriction-free, and standardised access to information on the repair and maintenance of vehicles. Discrimination with respect to authorised dealers and repair workshops is not allowed.

Source: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/automotive/technical-har...

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#282

Post by cptskippy »

bearcobra wrote: post #134
ec109685 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing Tesla doesn’t have is the lock in that Apple has. If you are using iPhoto, iWatch and iMessage, switching to another manufacturer is hugely disruptive. I totally agree that Tesla’s software chops are light years ahead.

SuperCharging seems to be the play to build up some lock in. Not sure how successful it will be, but I can definitely see it encouraging repeat purchases

I would disagree. Tesla's Supercharger originated years before the industry settled on the CCS Connectors and well before CCS Combo connectors came about. At it's inception it was technically superior to anything available.

When the EU settled on Combo 2, Tesla started shipping Model 3s with it as well as updating Superchargers.

The US market is a very different environment than Europe and still hasn't adopted a common standard. The 2020 Nissan Leaf ships with J1772 and CHAdeMO options which are incompatible with the CCS Combo 1 other automakers are shipping. That means a charging station needs to have at least 2 different connectors, 3 if it wants to offer the fastest possible charging because while J1772 chargers are compatible with CCS equipped cars, CCS Chargers are not backward compatible with J1772 vehicles.

Tesla owners are not locked into Superchargers and are able to charge at other chargers via adapters. All Teslas in the US come with a J1772 adapter, and you can purchase a CHAdeMO adapter.

Superchargers are also generally located along highways to facilitate long road trips, something most other EVs are incapable of even if the infrastructure existed.

Tesla sold more EVs in the US in 2019 than all other auto manufacturers combined. The next two best selling EVs (Leaf and Bolt) don't even share a common connector. Building out a charging network that's compatible with other EVs would only serve to benefit their competition. As it stands the Supercharger is a nonbinding value add for any Tesla owner.

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#283

Post by [deleted] »

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #206
_ea1k wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed... its already happened with the Bolt. It beats the Model 3 on several objective practicality metrics. It is also slower and perceived as less attractive. Due to poor marketing, I suspect most perceive it to be much slower, rather than just somewhat slower. It sells really poorly. Most of these other competitors are going to run into the same fate for years.

Chevys reputation is dogshit and compared against Tesla for quality innovation/brand the contrast is night and day. They also ran those absurd car commercials for the last decade or so about "real people, not actors" which were spoofed so well on YouTube that I think they actually damaged their brand.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#284

Post by xedeon »

bradly wrote: post #252
Spivak wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're painting the second option as bad when it's exactly the same flow as buying gas. Nothing about paying for electricity needs an account and more than buying gas does. I agree that Tesla's system is pretty slick but the alternative isn't bad.

The alternative is worse. It doesn't really matter if it is the same as ICE. Every time I use my credit card at my local gas station it asks me if I'd like add my phone number to receive text ads. Every time. Telsa is not going to let that happen. People are paying for a premium for electric cars still and that premium should come with something better than the alternative. Telsa has delivered on that. The concern is…

Not only that, thieves are very crafty nowadays with skimmers even with card that have EMV chips.

I remember being paranoid everytime I would gas up and check the pump because I have been skimmed once. All of that is eliminated on Superchargers.

Another benefit I forgot to mention:

"The company also doesn’t take advantage of the extra travels during states of emergency and it generally offers free Supercharging in the affected areas."

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/12/tesla-opens-up-free-sup...

Imagine getting free gas during a calamity to get safely to your destination.

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#285

Post by SergeAx »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #241
SergeAx wrote: post #236

If you check out some of the automotive AI companies, you will see half a dozen names like Nuro, Aurora, Momenta, TuSimple, Pony, Zoox. There are more in the neigbourhood with tech like lidars, computer vision and so on. Those companies has literally NOTHING beyond software and early prototypes, but they still are valued at billions of dollars each. So, compared to them, what should be a valuation of a profitable com…

Probably less than the combined valuation of GM and Ford when each sells an order of magnitude more cars than Tesla. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019-u-s-auto-sales-figures-by... Even if we consider that a stock valuation indicates what we THINK a company might be worth in the far far future it doesn’t make sense.

This is exactly my point: you are valuing TSLA as a car maker, and I along with the market prefer to value it as tech company.

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#286

Post by xedeon »

arethuza wrote: post #54
vardump wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who'd be credible competitors to Tesla? Old ICE companies are still struggling to even compete with Tesla's 2012 Model S. It might be that if anyone beats Tesla, it'd be some of the tech giants. Like Apple.

Most people aren't in the market for a Model S or a competitor.

Many are in the market for the Model 3. I would imagine that the Model Y SUV will eclipse Model S,3,X sales by a wide margin.

There are rumors going around that they will start deliveries next month. Which is probably one the reasons for the stock rally.

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#287

Post by ctdonath »

erk__ wrote: post #281
ctdonath wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, repair still needs sorting out. HOWEVER, other manufacturers build for repairs: there are high-cost repair services provided at every dealership. Yes you can get a car fixed, but that's because it's built to need fixing often & terminally.

HOWEVER, other car manufactures follow the law* and makes it possible for independant shops to buy replacement parts and sells service manuals. Witch as far as I am aware Tesla still does not do. *: in the EU: > Easy and clear access to information on vehicle repair and maintenance (RMI) is key to guaranteeing free competition on the vehicle aftermarket. Manufacturers must ensure that independent operators have easy,…

Different problems.

Designing high-maintenance cars to keep in-network repair shops busy is one thing.

Limiting access to repair information is another.

Like Apple, Tesla faces (more than most manufacturers) the problem of a 3rd-party repair going awry and making the primary manufacturer look bad.

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#288

Post by xedeon »

erk__ wrote: post #271
xedeon wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the app and now exactly how it works. That's why I replied. I can even do a screen recording and show you, if you want.

You should really do that and post the video as a reply to the tweet, because it seems like others have had another experiance when doing it.

When you say "others" can you cite where you are finding these reports from?

Making a conscious purchase and then regretting it (after getting yelled at by your wife) does not equal to a "fat finger incident".

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#289

Post by sillysaurusx »

notJim wrote: post #260
sillysaurusx wrote: post #52

If you're wondering what could possibly justify $100B, think in terms of "What if Tesla put all the other car companies out of business?" This isn't as unlikely as it seems: https://twitter.com/whyvert/status/1219288360096694273 Trucking revenue was $700B in 2017. There's a lot of room to grow.

He's comparing the most popular car from Tesla to some of the least-popular cars from the other manufacturers. Audi sold 200k cars in 2019, but they were SUVs, not sedans. I would guess the Model 3 sales will crater when the Model Y comes out.

I wonder how we'd generate a fairer graph. Is the data available anywhere? (Ideally the raw data of sales by manufacturer bucketed by vehicle type.)

Re: Tesla races past $100B in market valuation

#290

Post by WBrad »

xedeon wrote: post #138
WBrad wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon has received billions from the US government across his companies. It'd be a slap in the face to the entire US population for Tesla to have a 100% proprietary charging network when we helped get the company going.

You mean the $451.8M Department of Energy loan they used to buy the old NUMMI Toyata plant? Yeah.... They paid that off nine years early with interest. Try again. https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-repays-department-energy-lo... Meanwhile, why don't we talk about the GM bailout money? If you can cite a source for the "billions" you mentioned, that would be great to read, since I must've missed that one.

Keep in mind I said "Elon's companies", not "Tesla"

$4.9 Billion in subsidies as of 2015 across 3 companies

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-201...

We can talk about Gm if you want but I don't see how its relevant to my original point. Are there gas stations where only GM cars can fill up?

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